[Bf-committers] Texture assignment workflow is confusing

Sun May 9 07:43:41 CEST 2010

Hi All,

Just curious what the next step is to see if this goes anywhere.  Is it...?

1) Have this topic raised at next meeting, to work out if it is 
something worth exploring from a user?software structure stand-point
2) Create a UI proposal exploring the issue and proposing solutions? and 
then discussing this at a meeting?

I assume that because the topic went quiet, that there was agreement (or 
not disagreement) with the idea of a Socket type influence system.

Cheers.

Doug

On 30/04/2010 1:52 p.m., Doug Ollivier wrote:
> Awesome,  was curious how light-wave did it.
>
> They are all seeming relatively similar with minor differences in approach.
>
> Any wild cards out there from strange softwares etc?
>
> On 30/04/2010 1:40 p.m., Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com wrote:
>    
>> Ive suggested this type of texture managing in the past inspired on
>> Lightwave where you can assign a texture or a texture stack to each
>> value
>>
>> Material properties with a T icon to launch texture stack
>>
>> http://www.except.nl/lightwave/hdr/images/Surface_notgood_sm.png
>>
>> Texture Stack
>>
>> http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/LightwaveTuts/LWPacks/StainedGlass/SGlassImages/SGlass19B-LayerStack.jpg
>>
>> nice...
>>
>> Daniel Salazar
>> www.3developer.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Doug Ollivier<doug at doug.org.nz>   wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> On 30/04/2010 3:49 a.m., Knapp wrote:
>>>
>>>        
>>>> I only use Blender but I was wondering if the other 3d packages have
>>>> found a good way to handle this texture/materials problem? Could we
>>>> incorporate some good ideas this way? Why reinvent the wheel? Does
>>>> anyone have a favorite other system? How does it work?
>>>>
>>>> I am not putting down the other ideas given so far, just hoping to
>>>> find all the options before we pick the best.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> For those who have just joined my concept is to move the texture
>>> assignment to the point of control/use/influence when setting up a
>>> material in order to create a semantic/logicial link between action and
>>> affect : http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=2989
>>>
>>> Note: I dislike submitting ideas and saying they were influenced by the
>>> big boys, because I find it sometimes elicits a "we don't want to copy"
>>> response, and forces us to reinvent the wheel due to the pride of being
>>> independent and creative. However, pride aside, I agree that looking at
>>> how others have solved a problem, and then improving on their solutions
>>> is one of the best methods of development, its not revolutionary, but
>>> nor were puffer-fish, they evolved from something way less exciting.
>>>
>>> I'll outline the two softwares that I have used that give any real
>>> control over multiple textures, I am curious what great softwares others
>>> have used that solve these issues. But to sum it up I found the easiest
>>> to use ones use a socket type system.  The non-flexible ones with nice
>>> results (cad rendering packages) give few if not no options so I just
>>> won't mention them.
>>>
>>> *Photoshop 3D tools,*
>>> They use a limited socket type system,  either a colour, or a single
>>> image per value of influence.
>>> I.e. you can choose an image for the reflection channel, colour channel,
>>> spec channel....
>>> Super easy, pretty limited, but limited in order to be compatible with
>>> real-time 3D content in PDF's etc...
>>> Since you are in photoshop you can edit the images, and this is where
>>> you can add layers and overlay options etc... to get what you want in
>>> terms of further control.
>>>
>>> *Maya (it's been a while, this is from memory)*
>>> Uses something in-between what I am suggesting and the photoshop
>>> approach.  Just like the Blender 2.5 materials panel; each material or
>>> setting is broken up into a sub panel that can be turned on/off for any
>>> one effect (incredibly close to the current Blender layout). However,
>>> they use a socket type texture/node/material input to alter various
>>> settings that cannot be controlled simply by a slider or colour picker.
>>> I believe their implementation is even used to plug in 3rd party Plugins
>>> like SSS, Ramp, and fresnel effects to the various channels etc... (not
>>> just textures).  This linked approach also creates a hypergraph (nodes)
>>> structure.  I had no idea how to use that then so ignored it.
>>>
>>> My biggest annoyance with the Maya system was getting lost once a
>>> texture has been added, as it dropped you somewhere else in the
>>> interface that you did not expect (a challenge we would need to
>>> overcome, but one I think is possible).
>>>
>>> I am glad brecht suggested this or something similar, as he's pretty on
>>> to it, especially when it comes to getting large numbers of fans.
>>>
>>> If this approach is preferred, and is backed up by a development goal
>>> from the decision makers (If Ton sanctions exploring it it etc..), I
>>> will be willing to work through interface issues with Matt, and William
>>> (these are the two people focusing on interface correct?).
>>>
>>> The main interface issues to overcome as I can see it are.
>>>
>>> ** Materials - how to keep these tabs clean from fluff
>>> ** Texture application settings - Where and how do you edit these
>>> settings that are unique to each material (not to the texture)
>>> ** Texture settings - the traditional 2.4x datablock, how do you get to
>>> this and back again from a material, and a potential intermediate step
>>> ** Adding and mixing - The current system lets you add and mix multiple
>>> textures, how can this be easily and logically done? (nodes?, stacks?...)
>>> ** extending into the future... Plugins Etc - I think some of this will
>>> come for free if this is a natural step towards "nodes everywhere".
>>>
>>> I think there are no issues that cannot be overcome. and I think that
>>> old textures can be loaded into a new interface with full compatibility.
>>>
>>> Someone let me know if this warrants further development and I will look
>>> at creating a more detailed interface flow scenario.
>>>
>>> By trade i'm an Industrial Designer, so can look at usability and
>>> interaction, I'm not a coder unfortunately so cannot help there.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> --
>>> Doug Ollivier
>>>
>>> *C:*    +64 (0)27 412 0807
>>> *P:*    +64 (0)3 980 7197
>>> *E:*    doug at doug.org.nz
>>> *W:*    http://doug.org.nz
>>>
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>>>
>>>        
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>
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