[Bf-committers] 2.5 release

Toni Alatalo antont at kyperjokki.fi
Wed Nov 18 08:34:54 CET 2009


Thomas Dinges kirjoitti:
> I also strongly disagree about the Engine Toggle topic. As a Non Game 
> Engine User i don't want to see a GE button at all, neither a "game 
> menu". It's something new, this engine toggle, but in my oppinion a 
> great feature to prevent the UI from being overpolluted with buttons the 
> (non GE) Blender User don't want to see.
>   

BTW I think the case is much more extreme for people who are targetting 
games, at least in <2.5 (don't know how clever the ui code is in 2.5 
already) -- in 2.49 the ui is polluted with all kinds of modelling, 
animation, modifier, compositing etc stuff that doesn't work when you 
are targetting some realtime engine (in our case Ogre).

Someone (Erwin?) mentioned the idea of making a customized UI for games 
modelling here earlier, was going to reply to that 'cause was actually 
preparing a talk about that to bconf but had to cancel the trip. We 
might start working on such a thing (targetting the realxtend 
multiplayer platform, where content is now in Ogre formats but there's 
work towards supporting Collada) - e.g. a mode to Blender that has only 
Ogre or Collada compliant tools visible (like no bone segments or 
complex ik/fk stuff).

This is where I stopped when had to cancel the trip for not work related 
reasons, looking forward to a retry next year when we've implemented the 
stuff so that it works :) 
http://wiki.realxtend.org/index.php/Blender_Conference_2009_Presentation 
.. and will continue to collect info to the wiki there, anyone is free 
to discuss this on realxtend-dev mailing list or if there's wider 
interest for such a Blender game modelling ui project perhaps we can 
make some own list for it or use some forum?

I saw some conditional things in the ui source which I guess was using 
that game engine toggle, will look at that more first.

> Thomas
>   

~Toni

> joe schrieb:
>   
>> It's a bad idea to try and design everything about a UI ahead of time;
>> you inevitably end up making changes once you actually implement
>> things anyway.  I also disagree that we're risking making a bad
>> impression, this is a *beta* after all, and plenty of software
>> survives being in beta (just look at firefox).
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>   
>>     
>>>> Knapp wrote:
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> OK, I can see this point but the other side of it is that we (advanced
>>>>> users in both senses) are using it to try it out and to find bugs but
>>>>> also to learn it, so that we can help the next wave of users. If I see
>>>>> a button is missing, for example the play rendered animations button,
>>>>> I go looking for it. If I find it, then I know where it is and have
>>>>> learned that bit. If on the other hand buttons pop up later, I might
>>>>> already know that they are not there (falsely) or never think to look.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think to solve your point, a message should pop up saying something
>>>>> like, "Not Yet Implemented", just as it would on a beta web site.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other plus of this, from a design point, is that we have a well
>>>>> designed UI. Putting together a UI in bits is how we ended up with the
>>>>> mess that is the 2.49 UI. It was made by years of people adding bits
>>>>> here and there as best they could. 2.5 is a total redesign to address
>>>>> problems like this, at least I think it is. Why not decide where all
>>>>> the button will go early on? Maybe even plan for buttons that might be
>>>>> needed years down the road. (not saying they should be seen yet)
>>>>>
>>>>> Also the work is not useless, if the buttons go to planed but not yet
>>>>> implemented features. The UI is a totally key part of the puzzle of
>>>>> making a great work flow and a great piece of software. It should be
>>>>> one of the most thought out and tested bits of the whole thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> A bit of auto testing would not be a bad thing. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Roger Wickes <rogerwickes at yahoo.com>
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>> wrote:
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>>> With all due respect, I disagree totally with the request to add
>>>>>> all button, even if they go nowhere. I think it is misleading,
>>>>>> and a lot of useless work, to put in buttons that go nowhere.
>>>>>> I would only agree if we were using an automated GUI testing
>>>>>> tool that clicked on certain coordinates in executing the script.
>>>>>> In that case, we would want to preserve those coordinates
>>>>>> for later regression testing. If the goal of the release was to
>>>>>> get feedback/work out UI placement and arrangement, cool,
>>>>>> but that is not one of the goals of the release, afaik.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Users that see a button like to click it. Otherwise, you are
>>>>>> introducing a decision point into the process, which is "Is this
>>>>>> feature implemented in this beta?" and I would bet dollars to
>>>>>> donuts they would not know. Hence, if a feature WAS supposed
>>>>>> to be in there, but was broken, clicking the button with no response
>>>>>> masks the error, as the user will assume it was not in the release.
>>>>>>  ----------------
>>>>>> Sent by Roger Wickes for intended recipient. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>> recipient, please delete this message and contact Mr. Wickes immediately.
>>>>       
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>>>>         
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>>     
>
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