[Bf-committers] Re: RenderMan support

rednelb rednelb at chello.sk
Wed Oct 20 12:57:47 CEST 2004

Hello there,
If you are interested in such topic please read bellow. I am very 
curious what do you think. Thanks.

Ton Roosendaal wrote:

> Hi,
> I advise you to this openly via our main developers mailing list;
> http://projects.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers/
> That way you reach the maximum amount of people, and might get 
> feedback  on it.
> -Ton-
> On 20 Oct, 2004, at 0:35, rednelb wrote:
>> All right, here's the deal:
>> I would contact all of undermentioned people by forwarding them this  
>> whole our conversation with some additional introduction so they 
>> would  have time to consider. Then, as I will receive their - 
>> hopefully  positive - replies, I will try to arrange an IRC session 
>> for everyone  willing to join. And please, would you be so kind and 
>> notify then the  people of Blender staff which may be interested? 
>> Thank you.
>> What do you think?
>> Regarding the conference - unfortunately I am not attending because 
>> of  some stupid reasons. But I promise I will make the ohhs and ahhs 
>> from  here. Good luck with the conference!
>> Ton Roosendaal wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Thanks for the elaborate proposal. Now, the main problem to tackle 
>>> is   how to structure this work well, and how we can make sure 
>>> current   efforts (like on yafray or aqsis) all can be (re)designed 
>>> to become a   straightforward generic system for integration with 
>>> third party   renderers.
>>> I don't have the list of participants to the Blender conference 
>>> here,   but I guess you are not attending?
>>> Anyhow, we could have a special IRC session (or if not possible 
>>> email   exchanges) with the people who already work on this topic. I 
>>> would  also  appreciate if you feel like helping out, for example 
>>> contacting   Alejandro or Jonathan Merrit (aqsis)? Both are also on 
>>> the   bf-commmitters mailing list, you could just use that for texts 
>>> like   this as well. :)
>>> -Ton-
>>> On 19 Oct, 2004, at 11:44, rednelb wrote:
>>>> Hello Ton Roosendaal,
>>>> I can imagine you are very busy and receive numerous similar  
>>>> requests  but in spite of that I would like you to ask for a few  
>>>> moments because  I think you are the most appropriate recipient.
>>>> Frankly, I do believe that Blender tight integration with 
>>>> RenderMan  is  a very good thing. This document is structured as 
>>>> follows: an  attempt  to explain why, current situation, a proposal 
>>>> and  conclusion.
>>>> RenderMan is a standard for describing scene and there are 
>>>> several   implementations of this standard known as RenderMan 
>>>> compliant   renderers (engines). For actual rendering all those 
>>>> employ so called   Render Everything You Ever Saw (REYES) pipeline. 
>>>> And this is the   reason. For motion blur, depth-of-field, 
>>>> displacement, area lights  and  huge textures, architecture-wise 
>>>> every such engine will be  always  faster than raytracing-based 
>>>> one. Plus, also there is the  RenderMan  Shading Language (RSL), 
>>>> which is the way of describing  the actual look  of objects in 
>>>> scene that gives one great  possibilities for tuning,  tweaking and 
>>>> optimalization. (But to be  fair, there are situations  raytracing 
>>>> is simply better option for,  e.g. glass.)
>>>> Many engines exist. Probably the best known is Pixar’s  
>>>> Photorealistic  RenderMan renderman.pixar.com, another commercial  
>>>> one is NVIDIA’s  GPU-accelerated Gelato  
>>>> http://film.nvidia.com/page/gelato.html. Also  many open source 
>>>> and  free alternatives are available, just to name  only few: 
>>>> 3Delight  www.3delight.com, Aqsis www.aqsis.com, lucille   
>>>> http://lucille.sourceforge.net and Pixie   
>>>> www.cs.berkeley.edu/~okan/Pixie/pixie.htm. On the other hand, a   
>>>> several attempts to bring all of this to Blender are known as 
>>>> well.   From oldest to most recent: green’s  
>>>> www.blender.org/modules.php?  
>>>> op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=175, BlenderMan   
>>>> www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16707 and of course Tuhopuu   
>>>> www.blender.org/modules.php?  
>>>> op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3982,   
>>>> http://aqsis.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=16. The last 
>>>> one   is also the reason I am writing you now because right here 
>>>> and  right  now is the will to bring RenderMan into Blender and a 
>>>> lot of  problems  can be solved beforehand if working together.
>>>> By “tight integration” I mean precisely the same as what was done 
>>>> to   YafRay. Both XML (in this case .rib) and plug-in (the Tuhopuu 
>>>> is  step  it that direction). However it remains still open how 
>>>> exactly  should  co-exist the different shader/material structures 
>>>> of Blender  and  RenderMan. I see two ways: “shader emulation” – 
>>>> this is how the   Tuhopuu works; a material is translated to RSL to 
>>>> reassemble its   former look as close as possible or a complete 
>>>> rewrite of Blender’s   internal material model to satisfy those new 
>>>> demands. Maybe there is  a  third way as well which I am sadly not 
>>>> aware of. Now, with your   (everyone involved with) experience of 
>>>> integrating YafRay and their   (info at 3delight.com, pgregory/Aqsis 
>>>> aqsis at aqsis.com, Syoyo   Fujita/lucille 
>>>> syoyo at users.sourceforge.net, Okar Arikan/Pixie   
>>>> okan at cs.berkeley.edu and lancelet) RenderMan skills it should be   
>>>> possible, more that ever before, to support Blender with 
>>>> RenderMan,  to  support RenderMan with Blender and to have even 
>>>> more 3D joy!
>>>> That’s all. Thank you for your time and interest, I am looking  
>>>> forward  for your opinion. Have a nice day.
>>>> Juraj Sukop
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> -- --
>>> Ton Roosendaal  Blender Foundation ton at blender.org   
>>> http://www.blender.org
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> -- 
> Ton Roosendaal  Blender Foundation ton at blender.org  
> http://www.blender.org

More information about the Bf-committers mailing list