[Bf-committers] Re: RenderMan support
rednelb
rednelb at chello.sk
Wed Oct 20 12:57:47 CEST 2004
Hello there,
If you are interested in such topic please read bellow. I am very
curious what do you think. Thanks.
Ton Roosendaal wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I advise you to this openly via our main developers mailing list;
> http://projects.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers/
>
> That way you reach the maximum amount of people, and might get
> feedback on it.
>
> -Ton-
>
> On 20 Oct, 2004, at 0:35, rednelb wrote:
>
>> All right, here's the deal:
>> I would contact all of undermentioned people by forwarding them this
>> whole our conversation with some additional introduction so they
>> would have time to consider. Then, as I will receive their -
>> hopefully positive - replies, I will try to arrange an IRC session
>> for everyone willing to join. And please, would you be so kind and
>> notify then the people of Blender staff which may be interested?
>> Thank you.
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Regarding the conference - unfortunately I am not attending because
>> of some stupid reasons. But I promise I will make the ohhs and ahhs
>> from here. Good luck with the conference!
>>
>>
>>
>> Ton Roosendaal wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the elaborate proposal. Now, the main problem to tackle
>>> is how to structure this work well, and how we can make sure
>>> current efforts (like on yafray or aqsis) all can be (re)designed
>>> to become a straightforward generic system for integration with
>>> third party renderers.
>>>
>>> I don't have the list of participants to the Blender conference
>>> here, but I guess you are not attending?
>>>
>>> Anyhow, we could have a special IRC session (or if not possible
>>> email exchanges) with the people who already work on this topic. I
>>> would also appreciate if you feel like helping out, for example
>>> contacting Alejandro or Jonathan Merrit (aqsis)? Both are also on
>>> the bf-commmitters mailing list, you could just use that for texts
>>> like this as well. :)
>>>
>>> -Ton-
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 Oct, 2004, at 11:44, rednelb wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Ton Roosendaal,
>>>> I can imagine you are very busy and receive numerous similar
>>>> requests but in spite of that I would like you to ask for a few
>>>> moments because I think you are the most appropriate recipient.
>>>>
>>>> Frankly, I do believe that Blender tight integration with
>>>> RenderMan is a very good thing. This document is structured as
>>>> follows: an attempt to explain why, current situation, a proposal
>>>> and conclusion.
>>>>
>>>> RenderMan is a standard for describing scene and there are
>>>> several implementations of this standard known as RenderMan
>>>> compliant renderers (engines). For actual rendering all those
>>>> employ so called Render Everything You Ever Saw (REYES) pipeline.
>>>> And this is the reason. For motion blur, depth-of-field,
>>>> displacement, area lights and huge textures, architecture-wise
>>>> every such engine will be always faster than raytracing-based
>>>> one. Plus, also there is the RenderMan Shading Language (RSL),
>>>> which is the way of describing the actual look of objects in
>>>> scene that gives one great possibilities for tuning, tweaking and
>>>> optimalization. (But to be fair, there are situations raytracing
>>>> is simply better option for, e.g. glass.)
>>>>
>>>> Many engines exist. Probably the best known is Pixar’s
>>>> Photorealistic RenderMan renderman.pixar.com, another commercial
>>>> one is NVIDIA’s GPU-accelerated Gelato
>>>> http://film.nvidia.com/page/gelato.html. Also many open source
>>>> and free alternatives are available, just to name only few:
>>>> 3Delight www.3delight.com, Aqsis www.aqsis.com, lucille
>>>> http://lucille.sourceforge.net and Pixie
>>>> www.cs.berkeley.edu/~okan/Pixie/pixie.htm. On the other hand, a
>>>> several attempts to bring all of this to Blender are known as
>>>> well. From oldest to most recent: green’s
>>>> www.blender.org/modules.php?
>>>> op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=175, BlenderMan
>>>> www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16707 and of course Tuhopuu
>>>> www.blender.org/modules.php?
>>>> op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3982,
>>>> http://aqsis.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=16. The last
>>>> one is also the reason I am writing you now because right here
>>>> and right now is the will to bring RenderMan into Blender and a
>>>> lot of problems can be solved beforehand if working together.
>>>>
>>>> By “tight integration” I mean precisely the same as what was done
>>>> to YafRay. Both XML (in this case .rib) and plug-in (the Tuhopuu
>>>> is step it that direction). However it remains still open how
>>>> exactly should co-exist the different shader/material structures
>>>> of Blender and RenderMan. I see two ways: “shader emulation” –
>>>> this is how the Tuhopuu works; a material is translated to RSL to
>>>> reassemble its former look as close as possible or a complete
>>>> rewrite of Blender’s internal material model to satisfy those new
>>>> demands. Maybe there is a third way as well which I am sadly not
>>>> aware of. Now, with your (everyone involved with) experience of
>>>> integrating YafRay and their (info at 3delight.com, pgregory/Aqsis
>>>> aqsis at aqsis.com, Syoyo Fujita/lucille
>>>> syoyo at users.sourceforge.net, Okar Arikan/Pixie
>>>> okan at cs.berkeley.edu and lancelet) RenderMan skills it should be
>>>> possible, more that ever before, to support Blender with
>>>> RenderMan, to support RenderMan with Blender and to have even
>>>> more 3D joy!
>>>>
>>>> That’s all. Thank you for your time and interest, I am looking
>>>> forward for your opinion. Have a nice day.
>>>> Juraj Sukop
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -- --
>>> Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation ton at blender.org
>>> http://www.blender.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation ton at blender.org
> http://www.blender.org
>
>
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