[Bf-committers] Support for creases in subdivision surfaces
Fri, 7 May 2004 13:44:21 -0500
This is a good point. I would like to be a part of the Blender development
community, so I don't want to be rash and jump into an implementation
that is going to cause problems. I have read several papers on subdivision
surfaces and one implementation (I guess the addition to blender could be
considered a second, but I really didn't change much, the implementation
that was there, is still all there. There are just some additional rules).
I want to help.
I do not think my efforts so far are wasted, perhaps I have at least shown
some ability and knowledge of the subject. I realize I jumped in with both
feet and kept right on running, but I was excited to be able to add
something to Blender and see the community react favorably.
I will do more research and talk with others who have shown interest in
this feature. Maybe we can come up with something that looks like a
formal design on the feature and go from there. I can at least fully write
out my idea and submit it for comment.
Thanks for the advice.
On Friday 07 May 2004 12:39, Daniel Dunbar wrote:
> I think it is reasonably important that the creasing implementation
> of Blender follow an established method. There are two primary candidates
> in my opinion, the first is to follow the method that is used for the
> AQSIS open source renderer... as this is the only important open source
> implementation of creasing for catmull clark subdivision surfaces I am
> aware of I think it would be a reasonable role to set to follow their
> implementation. (There is also a modeller that follows the AQSIS
> convention, I forget the name).
> On the other hand Biermann et al. have established a method that seems
> to have become standard in the CC literature for creasing, and additionally
> have made sure that their method follows certain important properties that
> are not necessarily going to be present in an ad-hoc implementation.
> I have not researched creasing very much, but I would dislike to see
> a precedent for creasing set that will be annoying to follow if the
> subdivision code is replaced. In particular I would prefer to follow
> established research, in order that we are well positioned to take
> advantage of subsequent research.
> I have not had time to review your patch, but I am curious as to
> how you encode edge based data in faces. I hope it is done in a
> manner so that no ambiguities would exist were a proper edge structure
> to be implemented (I imagine it is already, but it is something to keep
> in mind).
> One note: C bitfields while convient, have disadvantages and are not
> the most cross platform of constructs. We have tended to, and I recommend
> continuing to, avoid them.
> --- Chris McFarlen <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> > (Umm... I sent this from the wrong account and the moderator grabbed it. Sorry if it shows up
> > twice)
> > I didn't know anyone was working on this :) When I started looking (on Sunday) the blender.org
> > page was slashdotted
> > so I didn't know about the mailing list. I asked the guys on #blendercoders and they said "Go
> > for it!". So I did. Sorry.
> > I have been convinced the weights should be there. I have Pixar's white paper on their surfaces
> > used for
> > creating Geri from 'Geri's Game' (The old guy playing chess with himself). It is in the 1998
> > SIGGRAPH
> > conference proceedings. The implementation I settled on for my research used the binary
> > sharp-or-not
> > method (I forget who pioneered this one, don't have the bibliography in my research, but is
> > certainly not Pixar's approach)
> > but I did not consider the limitation of not having a smoothing weight a big problem
> > (you can use more edges to approximate this, I thought...). The problem is, I never built a
> > reasonable control mesh editor
> > to test my theory about the limitation. Since adding my crease implementation to blender
> > (which
> > has a great editor), I am convinced I was wrong. Its hard to create a sharp to smooth
> > transition along
> > one path using just a binary flag.
> > So, I'm going to go right into adding the weight factors. I propose this:
> > Each edge in the control mesh has 2 weights, one for each vertex. The weights have the
> > following meanings:
> > 0 - no sharpness, smooth
> > (0..1) - interpolated sharpness
> > [1..inf) - infinitely sharp
> > When dividing an edge, the weight used is determined by w = (w1 + (w2-w1)/2), then:
> > if w is very close to 0 use smooth rule for new edge point
> > if w >= 1 use sharp rule for the new edge point
> > else
> > new edge point = (smooth rule point) + w*((sharp rule point) - (smooth rule point)) (a vector
> > equation, the point is somewhere in between the smooth and sharp point)
> > You then assign w to the weights of all edges attached to this new vertex to feed back into the
> > next division.
> > With this method, if both weights of an edge are equal and >= 1, the effect is the same as sharp
> > (as you get now).
> > If the weight is 0 on one end and 1 on the other, the edge goes from completely smooth to
> > completely sharp. You can
> > make an edge be sharp longer by having the sharp edge > 1. So if the weights were 0 and 2, then
> > half of the edge
> > would be completely sharp, and half transition from completely smooth to sharp.
> > Based on the changes I made for binary creases, I should be able to demonstrate this fairly
> > quickly. I don't want
> > to step on any toes, so if anyone has a problem with me continuing, let me know.
> > Later,
> > Chris
> > On Friday 07 May 2004 11:28, Matthew H. Plough wrote:
> > > Chris McFarlen wrote:
> > >
> > > >I added support for creases in the Catmull-Clark subdivision surfaces. You can read about it
> > and download the patch here:
> > > >
> > > Well Chris, congratulations! You have officially scooped the work that
> > > I was planning to do! This is an excellent addition to Blender, and
> > > should greatly increase the capabilities of subdivision surfaces.
> > >
> > > Chris McFarlen's website wrote:
> > >
> > > > I extended the blender implementation to include creases, but my
> > > > implementation only defines a binary sharpness; no weight factors. An
> > > > edge is either sharp, or it isn't. This isn't as much of a limitation
> > > > as it might seem. No, really :)
> > >
> > > This really is a limitation, and one that shouldn't be there. The
> > > implementation that I had been working on includes weight factors; they
> > > are relatively easy to implement. You are using a flag to set the
> > > subdivision level; seeing as Blender only subdivides out to level 6,
> > > using three bits (for a total of seven possible levels, as well as an
> > > off level) would allow you to implement weight factors. Let's say that
> > > those are bits 31, 30, and 29 of a standard int.
> > >
> > > (1) bit 31 -> 111* **** **** **** **** **** **** **** <-bit 0 would
> > > indicate an infinite crease edge,
> > > (2) bit 31 -> 000* **** **** **** **** **** **** **** <-bit 0 would
> > > indicate a normal edge, and
> > > (3) bit 31 -> 010* **** **** **** **** **** **** **** <-bit 0 would
> > > indicate an edge with sharp subdivision level 2.
> > >
> > > Since endian-ness is not an issue at runtime, it is a simple matter to
> > > shift the bits right, to
> > >
> > > bit 31 -> 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0111 <-bit 0 (the result
> > > for an infinite crease edge)
> > >
> > > Now, if the result is 0, then a smooth subdivision should be used.
> > > Otherwise, use a sharp subdivision, and decrement. Then, shift the
> > > result back to
> > >
> > > bit 31 -> 0010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0111 <-bit 0 (the result
> > > for a decremented (3), above)
> > >
> > > and bitwise OR it into the flag integer for the resulting edge.
> > >
> > > I hope this is clear -- if not, say so, and I will try to explain it better.
> > >
> > > Matt
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> daniel dunbar
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