[Bf-committers] Re: [Bf-blender-cvs] CVS commit: Loop selection

[Roel Spruit]

Sorry, I may have sounded a little more sarcastic than I hoped :)

It IS possible to decide if an edge belongs to another selected face.
If someone would implement it this way, he would run into a whole
bunch of other "what-if's".

I don't know if it's wise to bother the user with popups asking
him what he wants to deselect and how he wants to deselect it...

so! my final say on this:

1) shift-like behaviour COULD be programmed (difficult)
2) it is questionable if it could be as predictable as
   shift with vertex-select.
3) I'm not programming it because I think it is not usefull
   if anyone else thinks it is, and it is needed, be my guest :)

One thing is for sure, blender's mesh structure is not made for stuff
like this :)

Roel





-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: bf-committers-admin@blender.org
[mailto:bf-committers-admin@blender.org]Namens ilac
Verzonden: zaterdag 25 oktober 2003 13:03
Aan: bf-committers@blender.org
Onderwerp: [Bf-committers] Re: [Bf-blender-cvs] CVS commit: Loop
selection


 Did you read and understand my email or is this a sarcastic reply? :o/
> Trying out my bf commit will answer 99% of your questions.Another way of
plainly telling me it does differ considerably from your Tuhopuu commits?
>
> for the other 1 %:50% actually but anyway...
>
> let's say these are 2 loops..
>
> [][][][]
> [][][][]
>
> now I select 1 of them
> [x][x][x][x]
> [ ][ ][ ][ ]
>
> I add the other one to the selection (so far so good)
> [x][x][x][x]
> [x][x][x][x]
>
> and I remove 1 from the selection (uhoh!)
> [ ][ ][ ][ ] <----only the top row of verts stays selected, so not the
> entire FACE
> [ ][ ][ ][ ]An absolute de-selection. I spoke about that in my email
too... It's not a problem if that's what the user wants which is why I
suggested giving the user the choice between absolute and relative. In a
relative de-selection only the bottom edge row of your selection would be
de-selected because the middle edge is also part of other face selections.
>
> So you see, this even occurs with just 2 loops, not just with 3
side-by-side
> loops.That was just an example. 'This' occuring isn't a problem. It's the
way selections currently work in Blender (in edit mode).
> No way to get around this, other than a VERY complicated way of saving
> loop-data.Fair enough. You're the coders so no arguments from me there as
I don't fully understand how these things work. But Blender is obviuosly
aware of what is selected and what is not. So if I understand you, you're
telling me that its a problem to find out if a vertex belongs to more than
one selected face? From my pov I don't see the relavance of loop-data as
using a loop selection shold be possible in conjunction with 'non-loops'
selections.
>
> sorry!Me too. I was just trying to be helpful and trying to
understand.Fabrizio.




----- Original Message -----
From: "ilac" <ilac@maltanet.net>
To: <bf-committers@blender.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Bf-blender-cvs] CVS commit: Loop selection


> Thanks for an explanation! :o) Much appreciated!
>
> >  currently it just adds the second loop to the selection and
> > deselects nothing.
> Uhm.. does it? I just downloaded ztonzy's latest Tuhopuu build and loop
> selection is till exclusive (ie. Selecting a new loop deselcts the old
one)
> Is it different in your bf commit then? In which case thanks! :o) Multiple
> loop selection is a great plus!
>
> There is a small problem with it though. From what I've read on Elysuin, a
> lot of people use loop select to preview loop cut. If loops are retained,
it
> could be confusing and the user has to keep using AKEY in between loop
> select. Using a modifier to add rather than being there by defalt still
> might make more sense. Like that you can use exclusive Loop selection to
> quickly browse through a mesh to check structure.
>
>
> As for loop de-selection, I'm not a coder so excuse the layman
explanation!
> :
> the de-selection modifier checks to see if the vertex is part of another
> selected face or not. If it's not then it is deselected, if it is then it
is
> retained. I would expect it to work this way because of how blender's
> current editing mode works. ie. if you have 3 selected loops side by side,
> it is impossible to deselect the middle one no matter what in blender, but
> it is possible to deslect the outer FACE loops by deselcting the outer
edge
> loops. So in a case of a loop deselect the inner edge loops are part of
the
> middle Face loop and therefore should not be deselected (ie vertex was
part
> of more than one selected face and therefore retained)
>
> In short: Non-shared selected vertices are deselected. Obviously this
means
> that if the whole mesh is selected you cannot deslect a face loop which
> brings me to the following:
>
> It might also be possible to put this as a user setting. User decides
> whether loop deselection is: 1) absolute (both edge loops de-selected no
> matter what) or 2) relative (non-shared selected vertices are deselected)
>
> What do you think? Or am I still missing something?
>
> Thanks again! :o)
>
> Regards
> Fabrizio
>
>  Roel Spruit wrote:
> > I have tried loop selection with a shift modifier, but that won't work.
> > thinks of this:
> >
> > In a uvsphere, select 1 horizontal loop.
> > Now select the one next to it, what would it select and what would it
> > deselect?
> > Would it deselect the vertices it shares with the first loop?
> >
> > This kind of interference between loops made me decide to NOT add a
> > shift-modifier
> > for faceloops. currently it just adds the second loop to the selection
and
> > deselects nothing.
> > That's why I kept the shift-r combo for selection, if you have an idea
how
> > the shift-modifier
> > for loopselect should be implemented, let me know!
> >
> > Roel
> >
> > ps. glad you like the new tools :)> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ilac" <ilac@maltanet.net>
> To: <bf-committers@blender.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 11:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bf-blender-cvs] CVS commit: Loop selection
>
>
> > Just remebered J is used to join tri's in edit mode so that one's out...
> But
> > K is still possible.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "ilac" <ilac@maltanet.net>
> > To: <bf-committers@blender.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 11:21 AM
> > Subject: [Bf-blender-cvs] CVS commit: Loop selection
> >
> >
> > > I've complained about this several, several (well, ok just 3  ;o) )
> > > occasions on elysiun and never got a direct reply (except Martin
letting
> > me
> > > know it was pointed out to Roel)
> > >
> > > Why the insistance on using the SHIFT key (Shift-R) for loop select?
> Shift
> > > is an add-to modifier key for selections. It would make sense to use
> shift
> > > to add/Remove more loops to the selection. Experimenting in Tuhopuu is
> > fine
> > > coz that's what it's there for but now it's been commited to the
> official
> > > tree too...
> > >
> > > Could we please have an alternative hotkey before the official
release.
> > (If
> > > you need an alternative, how about 'J'. It isn't used in Edit mode
> afaik.
> > > That gives you
> > > J = select loop,
> > > CTRLJ = cut and
> > > ShiftJ = add/remove loops even with other selections already present.
> > >
> > > Or use 'K'.
> > > K = brings up the knife menu,
> > > Ctrl-K = loop cut,
> > > Alt K = loop select,
> > > Alt Shift K  = add/remove.
> > >
> > > Though it might make more more sense to make K = loop select, and Alt
K
> =
> > > knife menu, so as to avoid a 3 key hotkey for the add/remove as now
that
> > > becomes shift K instead of Shift Alt K)
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm really sorry to be complaining, I really love the loop select and
> cut
> > > tools (Thanks Roel! :o) ) But using shift here doesn't seem in any way
> > > logical to me!
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Fabrizio
> > >
> >
>

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