[Bf-committers] Pupmenu conventions. (Was: CVScommit:blender/source/blender/src edit.c)

Ton Roosendaal bf-committers@blender.org
Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:00:08 +0200


The numerical hotkey option for menus is hardcoded in the menu system  
itself, it always works, and always counts from the top.
This is so incredible simple & functional, that I'm really surprised  
someone thinks to drop that consistancy.
The return event code for 'knife tool' (11) has nothing to do with it.

The Wkey menu in Blender is the worst example to look at... I've added  
it a long time ago to have easy access to new options we coded, it has  
no meaning, nor it was thought out to be a major hotkey. Only: "If it  
doesn't fit anywhere, put it in the Wkey menu!"
Should be replaced with the 'context toolbox'.


On Monday, Oct 6, 2003, at 15:32 Europe/Amsterdam, Robert Wenzlaff  

> On Monday 06 October 2003 08:10 am, Stephen Swaney wrote:
>> So basically, I agree with you about oranizing the menus like  
>> pulldowns,
>> and the space and w pupmenus.  But leave the darn snap menu alone.
>> Design principles are good, but don't follow them blindly.
> That's the whole point.  You can have it BOTH ways.  You can  
> re-orgainize the
> menu, and STILL use SHIFT-S-4.   The only thing we loose is the fact  
> that the
> 4th item is always invoked by a "4".  But because we gain visible  
> feedback
> (there will be a bold "4" in the button text), IMHO, it's better than  
> the old
> "counting from the top" system.
> I bet there's a number of long time users that didn't realize numbers  
> worked
> in menus. I only became aware of that in the last month or so, and  
> I've been
> around since 1.72.  Why?  There's no feedback for that feature. Even  
> if I had
> read about it somewhere, it didn't stick, because I never used it.   
> And I
> never used it, because it didn't stick.  Seeing it in bold everytime a
> pupmenu comes up, will make it stick.  New users can become power users
> faster.
> Since you stated that the advantage of the current system was that you  
> didn't
> have to look at the menu, would you even notice if (hypotheically)
> Cursor->Grid were no longer the 4th from the top, if it were still  
> invoked
> with a "4",  because it had been changed to "Cursor->Grid (*4*), where  
> *x*
> indicates bold or underline.  (BTW, The Shift-S menu IS context  
> sensitive.
> It changes, for example, in the IPO window.)
> So a year from now, we can insert Gri*b*nets->Grid before Cursor->Grid  
> (*4*)
> (because the magical properties of Gribnets dictates that it logically  
> goes
> there), and the Gribnets becomes Shift-S-B (The number of  G's in that  
> menu
> makes "*G*ribnets->Grid" a bad choice), while "Cursor->Grid (*4*)"  
> SHIFT-S-4.  And both combos are clear to the users who still look at  
> the menu
> because the hot keys are in highlighted text.  It's the best of all  
> worlds.
> (And if it's feasable it might be "C*u*rsor->Grid (*4*)" and be  
> invoked by
> either key.)
> ( If you're English isn't so good, don't be flustered by "Gribnets"   
> It's
> word I made up to represent a feature not yet written.)
> You will note that I tried to emulate part of this by placing Knife  
> Subd. in
> the middle of the W menu, but making it event "11".  I didn't know, at  
> the
> time, it was breaking convention, and I haven't bothered fixing it  
> because
> it's going to the new "K" menu soon.
> I'm not saying that the snap-menu NEEDS changing just for the sake of  
> change,
> but having conventions that force you to not change it, no matter how
> illogical it becomes in the future, is silly.  And at some point the  
> logic
> becomes overwhelming and the combo gets broken anyway (Ton's  
> exceptions).
> Then it's even harder to adjust to, because you've been using it for  
> that
> much longer.
> The convention was to be that the digits (1-9) be reserved for "famous"
> hot-key combos (since letters don't currently work in pupmenus, they  
> are not
> part of any famous combos).
> --  
> ***********************************************
>   "Obscure, Profound it was, and Nebulous,
>   So that by fixing on it's depths my sight,
>   Nothing whatsoever I discerned therein."
> 	    -Dante, predicting the Windows 95 API.
> ***********************************************
> Robert Wenzlaff     rwenzlaff@soylent-green.com
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Ton Roosendaal  Blender Foundation ton@blender.org