<div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks for your inputs,</div><div><br></div>I agree that material creation should be the same. But for realtime approximation we can have parallax correction volumes, and maybe light propagation volumes and other tricks that I don't see fit inside the cycles environment. Having many options for realtime tricks that won't have incidence on the final cycles render is not a good idea in my opinion.<div><br></div><div>So what I propose :</div><div>- Having some correct handling of cycles materials preview : That means to not support things like area lights (which is approximated). Only point lights. Using filtered inportance sampling and maybe local cubemaps (without parallax correction). SSR would be OK but AO should be the cycles "weird" AO in additive mode (also why is there not an option to set the blending mode for the AO in cycles??).</div><div>- Having a dedicated realtime renderer with all options here. I would focus on having great and optimized GGX approximation (as it's considered industry standard) and not support others as it would required too much effort (ie : LTC uses 2 LUTS (4+1 channels) by bsdf) and ressources. And maybe this one could have in the end an hybrid deferred / forward implementation.</div><div><br></div><div>the underlying code would be the same of course. Just restricting what is used by each viewport.</div><div><br></div><div>this is what the current implementation gives you</div><div><a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RCp94HurgNFz82rZ4Y5tDgngHRbr4rcyLyEPfOvGcYA/pubhtml">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RCp94HurgNFz82rZ4Y5tDgngHRbr4rcyLyEPfOvGcYA/pubhtml</a><br></div><div>So concerning cycles preview, I'm ok to have area lights only where it's correct so for diffuse / translucent and sharp shaders. Other shaders would default to point lights with correct behaviour.</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">I think that would benefits everybody.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-06-10 0:09 GMT+02:00 Mike Erwin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:significant.bit@gmail.com" target="_blank">significant.bit@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I see value in both a "Cycles preview" and a dedicated real-time renderer. Depends on what you (the artist) are targeting. Making assets for external game engines (like UE4) is also important, which makes the viewport a "preview" for that too.<div><br></div><div>The tools/interface should work as close to the same as possible so people can learn one material system and apply it to real-time or pre-rendered or game projects. Avoid the situation we have now with multiple ways to create materials.</div><div><br></div><div>It doesn't have to be a perfect approximation to whatever "other" renderer you're targeting. As long as it's good -- which it already is! -- and able to be improved over time.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><span><br clear="all"><div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Mike Erwin<br>musician, naturalist, pixel pusher, hacker extraordinaire</div></div>
<br></span><div><div><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Clément FOUCAULT <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:foucault.clem@gmail.com" target="_blank">foucault.clem@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I think we first need to agree on how to integrate this.<div><br></div><div>As of now it's trying to mimic cycles with viewport methods and I find this alienating for the UI to have all these options even for.</div><div><br></div><div>Also under some circumstances approximations are very far from cycles render. So I don't realy like it being presented as cycles preview and would like to separate it to another renderer dedicated to that.</div><div><br></div><div>What are your thoughts on this?</div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-06-09 22:37 GMT+02:00 Mike Erwin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:significant.bit@gmail.com" target="_blank">significant.bit@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Excellent work as always Clément! How can we get this into an "official" Blender release one day?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><span><font color="#888888"><br clear="all"><div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Mike Erwin<br>musician, naturalist, pixel pusher, hacker extraordinaire</div></div></font></span><div><div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Clément FOUCAULT <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:foucault.clem@gmail.com" target="_blank">foucault.clem@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">On my side I've release another iteration of my PBR experiment branch.<div><br></div><div><a href="https://vimeo.com/169475925" target="_blank">https://vimeo.com/169475925</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>I'm going to create a wikipage with some rambling about the PBR / shading side of things.</div><div><br></div><div>I also think like Alexander that we should have another dedicated renderer. But I don't think we should focus it to replace BI because we can't do everything with rasterisation techniques efficiently. So in my opinion it should be focus to have realtime rendering feature only.</div><span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>Clément Foucault</div></font></span></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-06-09 18:33 GMT+02:00 Alexander Romanov <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:a.romanov@blend4web.com" target="_blank">a.romanov@blend4web.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Hi!<br>
I've made some docs here
<a href="https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BI_temporary_removal" target="_blank">https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BI_temporary_removal</a><br>
and here
<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sxIz_Uk-foCHMq3vRQxgrlX9c-r3kMVPMqfuh-N1ZRs/edit#gid=1586247834" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sxIz_Uk-foCHMq3vRQxgrlX9c-r3kMVPMqfuh-N1ZRs/edit#gid=1586247834</a>
. The table shows what we should implement in Viewport to cover BI
functionality, any comments are welcome!<div><div><br>
<br>
<div>On 09.06.2016 19:17, Mitchell Stokes
wrote:<br>
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<div>Hello devs,<br>
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Any interesting viewport updates for the week of
May 30th to June 6th? Any plans for the upcoming
week? I will be aggregating information on the
Viewport Reports wiki page[1].<br>
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Thanks,<br>
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Mitchell Stokes<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:2.8/Viewport/Reports" target="_blank">https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:2.8/Viewport/Reports</a></div>
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<pre cols="72">--
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Developer
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Blend4Web: Unleashing the Power of 3D Internet
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