Hi Colin,<div><br></div><div>These look great. Can I convince you to take images of a calibration pattern with the lenses? We are not going to support uncalibrated tracking in the first release, so this is not as useful without calibration. Here's a calibration pattern I made for libmv:</div>
<div><br></div><div><a href="http://libmv.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/extras/calibration/calibration.pdf">http://libmv.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/extras/calibration/calibration.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div>Just print it out and carefully affix it to something very, very flat (no bends or wrinkles when gluing please).</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Keir<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Colin Levy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:colin@peerlessproductions.com">colin@peerlessproductions.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hey guys,<div><br></div><div>Wanted to let you know I've uploaded three shots which may hopefully be useful to you.</div>
<div><br></div><div>All three shots were shot on RED at 4K resolution for my film "En Route". All three have similar camera movement: a simple forward dolly push. I've uploaded JPG sequences for now, but can supply EXRs if requested.</div>
<div><br></div><div>You can watch H264 previews of these shots here:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.colinlevy.com/upload/LOBBY_preview.mov" target="_blank">http://www.colinlevy.com/upload/LOBBY_preview.mov</a></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12px"><a href="http://www.colinlevy.com/upload/FIELD_preview.mov" target="_blank">http://www.colinlevy.com/upload/FIELD_preview.mov</a></span></div><div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<a href="http://www.colinlevy.com/upload/WINDOW_preview.mov" target="_blank">http://www.colinlevy.com/upload/WINDOW_preview.mov</a></div></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">And you can log into the FTP space I'm using for a temporary project to access the image sequences. The folder is called "blender-vfx".</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-size:medium">Username: b173379</span><span style="font-size:medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:medium">Password: bleem34</span><span style="font-size:medium"><br></span><span style="font-size:medium">Server: </span><span style="font-size:medium"><a href="http://hanjin.dreamhost.com/" target="_blank">hanjin.dreamhost.com</a></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">(Please keep this info private!)</div><div><br></div><div>I can supply more varied material if you like as well. Hope this helps!</div><div><br>
</div><font color="#888888"><div>--Colin</div></font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:33 PM, Keir Mierle wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote">
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Francesco Callari <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fgcallari@gmail.com" target="_blank">fgcallari@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Keir Mierle <<a href="mailto:mierle@gmail.com" target="_blank">mierle@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:44 PM, François T. <<a href="mailto:francoistarlier@gmail.com" target="_blank">francoistarlier@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Regarding file formats: JPEG frames are probably fine; there's little<br>
>>> value in tracking on 16-bit data. The frames can even get converted to<br>
>>> grayscale, since the tracking ignores color information.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> are you not planning on using all the depth on the image for tracking ? in<br>
>> my experience, it can helps a lot sometimes !<br>
><br>
> Maybe eventually but not to start. Libmv takes 32 bit grayscale float images<br>
> to track them. However, I'm skeptical that more than 8 bits of grayscale<br>
> data would make a difference for tracking. Do you have examples where this<br>
> is the case?<br>
<br>
</div>One data point. When I was at ILM nearly all tracking (and, in fact,<br>
nearly all the imagery pipeline save for final rendering) was done on<br>
16bit OpenEXR float images (the "half" pixel format of OepnEXR). Of<br>
course the tracking code internally used higher precision for the<br>
arithmetics, and was independent of the image format. Generally<br>
speaking, OpenEXR is a really nice image library to work with in a<br>
graphics + vision environment.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It sounds like supporting higher bit depth is useful. This shouldn't be hard since libmv already operates on excessively precise 32 bit floats. It will just be a matter of using the appropriate conversion to 32 bit floats when extracting patches to track from the underlying footage.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I believe Blender already supports OpenEXR throughout.</div><div><br>Keir<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Franco<br>
<div><div></div><div><br>
<br>
> Keir<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> 2011/6/8 Keir Mierle <<a href="mailto:mierle@gmail.com" target="_blank">mierle@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Colin Levy<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:colin@peerlessproductions.com" target="_blank">colin@peerlessproductions.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Yeah, rolling shutter is an *incredible* pain. It can be corrected to<br>
>>>> an extent with tools like The Foundry's "RollingShutter" plugin for Nuke,<br>
>>>> which I've heard can make previously un-trackable shots trackable, but you<br>
>>>> see it *everywhere* these days -- even in hollywood features.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Yes, we will deal with it but it will take some time. It's mathematically<br>
>>> impossible to fix perfectly, so the best we can do is approximate fixes.<br>
>>> Truly unfortunate.<br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I do have some footage I can get you from my Canon XH-A1, which is a<br>
>>>> 3-CCD HDV camera. I sold the camera recently (CMOS is all the rage!), but I<br>
>>>> have a ton of footage I can go through.<br>
>>><br>
>>> That would be great! The only constraint is going to be calibration. Can<br>
>>> you get access to the camera for 10 minutes to take some shots of a<br>
>>> calibration pattern?<br>
>>> I realize the big tools deal with this automatically, but it's difficult<br>
>>> to do automatically and won't be supported in our first release.<br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> That said, RED's CMOS sensor is waayy better than the "jellocam" sensors<br>
>>>> in DSLRs like the 5D or T2i. (RED's new MX sensor I think is even better).<br>
>>>> So the rolling shutter is not bad -- but it's still noticeable in very<br>
>>>> high-motion shots.<br>
>>>> I'd say 80% of the RED shots I've got should not pose issues due to<br>
>>>> rolling shutter. The tracking tools I've been using do not account for<br>
>>>> rolling shutter, yet I'm able to get very solid tracks with little manual<br>
>>>> intervention. So perhaps still valuable to test with?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Sounds like the RED shots will work as long as the motion is not too<br>
>>> extreme.<br>
>>> Regarding file formats: JPEG frames are probably fine; there's little<br>
>>> value in tracking on 16-bit data. The frames can even get converted to<br>
>>> grayscale, since the tracking ignores color information.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Keir<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --Colin<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Jun 8, 2011, at 2:32 PM, Keir Mierle wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Thanks Colin!<br>
>>>> One point though: RED uses a CMOS sensor and is subject to rolling<br>
>>>> shutter. Do you know how bad it is? Some cameras have very slow sensor<br>
>>>> readout (and so terrible distortions with movement) and others have a faster<br>
>>>> rolling shutter which still has distortions, but less.<br>
>>>> For those who don't know: rolling shutter means that each scanline has a<br>
>>>> *different* shutter time! Yes, that means that the image is composed of<br>
>>>> 1000's of images, one scanline taken from each, with the camera moved<br>
>>>> between images. Extremely annoying, and totally breaks all the camera<br>
>>>> tracking assumptions.<br>
>>>> I realize that we have to handle rolling shutter but it's a big job and<br>
>>>> we won't support it in the first release.<br>
>>>> So I repeat my request: does anyone have a camera that doesn't have a<br>
>>>> rolling shutter? For example, the Panasonic SD9 has a CCD sensor and so<br>
>>>> takes true pinhole images for each frame.<br>
>>>> Virtually all modern DSLR's have awful rolling shutter (D90 included),<br>
>>>> so they are also excluded.<br>
>>>> Keir<br>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Colin Levy<br>
>>>> <<a href="mailto:colin@peerlessproductions.com" target="_blank">colin@peerlessproductions.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Hey guys,<br>
>>>>> I've got several TB worth of 4K material I can offer for tracking.<br>
>>>>> However, the shots will represent a more "real-world" scenario rather than<br>
>>>>> the test case shots listed below.<br>
>>>>> I don't suppose you want the RED .r3d files, so will TIFF sequences<br>
>>>>> work for you? (Or do you want both?) I will go through my drives in the<br>
>>>>> next few days and upload a few shots to my FTP, if you think this would be<br>
>>>>> useful! Let me know whether you'd like 32-bit images, with all the 'RAW'<br>
>>>>> data intact, or if 8 or 16bit will suffice.<br>
>>>>> One thing to note regarding resolution: I have noticed that in many<br>
>>>>> cases, tracking downrezzed shots is frequently more successful than trying<br>
>>>>> to track the raw 4K material. This may have something to do with the<br>
>>>>> default values (the default auto feature search range, for example, may be<br>
>>>>> something like 20px rather than 80px, which might be a better setting for<br>
>>>>> 4K). For my projects I usually downrez to 2K before tracking... also<br>
>>>>> because it's a lot faster. :P<br>
>>>>> Great discussion. Can't wait to see these tools develop!<br>
>>>>> --Colin<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Jun 8, 2011, at 12:59 PM, François T. wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I'll do all that on saturday with D90.<br>
>>>>> cheers<br>
>>>>> F.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 2011/6/8 Keir Mierle <<a href="mailto:mierle@gmail.com" target="_blank">mierle@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> A catalog of the following shots would be useful:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> General motion: Moving and rotating camera. Camera is /not/ always<br>
>>>>>> pointing at one part of the scene.<br>
>>>>>> Rotation only: camera on a tripod, rotating around a fixed point (if<br>
>>>>>> possible the camera's "Nodal point", but you need a special tripod for that)<br>
>>>>>> Translation only: walking sideways keeping the camera pointed forward<br>
>>>>>> (e.g. not circling)<br>
>>>>>> Translation only: walking towards the scene<br>
>>>>>> General motion when the scene is planar (e.g. camera keeps a big<br>
>>>>>> billboard in view and only the billboard)<br>
>>>>>> Circle strafing around an object; camera is fixated on one part of the<br>
>>>>>> scene (intersecting principal ray)<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> The scenes should have good texture so that tracking is easy; we can<br>
>>>>>> add challenging scenes later. It's ok if the translation-only scenes have<br>
>>>>>> some hand held wobble; that's fine. Boxes with texture are good. Complicated<br>
>>>>>> objects like bushes or trees are bad. The scene must be static (no cars,<br>
>>>>>> people, birds, godzilla, etc).<br>
>>>>>> The camera must be calibrated. There is a libmv calibration target<br>
>>>>>> that you can affix to a really flat object. The calibration target must be<br>
>>>>>> really flat; something that has a bit of bend is unacceptable and will give<br>
>>>>>> poor results.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> <a href="http://libmv.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/extras/calibration/calibration.pdf" target="_blank">http://libmv.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/extras/calibration/calibration.pdf</a><br>
>>>>>> Take several images of the calibration target (or a video in HD). Get<br>
>>>>>> different rotations and fill the frame to get the edges (important for<br>
>>>>>> distortion correction). Then run one of the calibration tools to find the<br>
>>>>>> intrinsic parameters (focal length in pixels, distortion, skew, etc).<br>
>>>>>> Note: Rolling shutter is *horrible* for tracking. We're going to have<br>
>>>>>> to handle it at some point, but I am trying to avoid it as long as possible.<br>
>>>>>> Do you have access to a CCD style camera without a rolling shutter?<br>
>>>>>> Keir<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Ian Hubert<br>
>>>>>> <<a href="mailto:ian@projectlondonmovie.com" target="_blank">ian@projectlondonmovie.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Hey all!<br>
>>>>>>> I've been following the conversations, and wanted to throw out that<br>
>>>>>>> if anyone needs any sort of footage, I can run out and film stuff. I already<br>
>>>>>>> have a few things things filmed- mostly just walking around the city holding<br>
>>>>>>> the camera as steady as I can- but if anyone wants anything else<br>
>>>>>>> (underexposed, really shaky, steady smooth, panning--but-no-movement,<br>
>>>>>>> somebody walking across the frame, stuff like that), just say so!<br>
>>>>>>> At this point all I can quickly provide is SD and HD-<br>
>>>>>>> I unfortunately don't have access to a 4k camera, but I'll film some random<br>
>>>>>>> stuff if I ever get my hands on one.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>>> Ian Hubert<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> Bf-vfx mailing list<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Bf-vfx@blender.org" target="_blank">Bf-vfx@blender.org</a><br>
>>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> Bf-vfx mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Bf-vfx@blender.org" target="_blank">Bf-vfx@blender.org</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> --<br>
>>>>> ____________________<br>
>>>>> François Tarlier<br>
>>>>> <a href="http://www.francois-tarlier.com/" target="_blank">www.francois-tarlier.com</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/francoistarlier" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/francoistarlier</a><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Bf-vfx mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Bf-vfx@blender.org" target="_blank">Bf-vfx@blender.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Bf-vfx mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Bf-vfx@blender.org" target="_blank">Bf-vfx@blender.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Bf-vfx mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Bf-vfx@blender.org" target="_blank">Bf-vfx@blender.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Bf-vfx mailing list<br>
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>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Bf-vfx mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Bf-vfx@blender.org" target="_blank">Bf-vfx@blender.org</a><br>
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>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> ____________________<br>
>> François Tarlier<br>
>> <a href="http://www.francois-tarlier.com/" target="_blank">www.francois-tarlier.com</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/francoistarlier" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/francoistarlier</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Bf-vfx mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Bf-vfx@blender.org" target="_blank">Bf-vfx@blender.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-vfx</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
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><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><font color="#888888">--<br>
Franco Callari <<a href="mailto:fgcallari@gmail.com" target="_blank">fgcallari@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
EC67 BEBE 62AC 8415 7591 2B12 A6CD D5EE D8CB D0ED<br>
<br>
I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to<br>
succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. (Abraham<br>
Lincoln)<br>
</font><div><div></div><div>_______________________________________________<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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