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<font size="-1"><font face="Tahoma">I agree with Daniel about Peacock's
properties tab with regards to the node editor, fitting tens or
hundreds of settings into one space that needs to be as compact as
possible. <br>
<br>
Settings can be changed from "inputable" or not in the properties
panel, only showing input or even output nodes that you want shown.</font></font><br>
<br>
Nathan Vegdahl wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:bd1b4c730905260037v23c4458at87a5963dc3c6a395@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In a way that is what he's suggesting, I think: read his second suggestion.
Sure, technically it's all in the same window. But it could be split
into two sub-windows: one that displays the list of modifiers, and one
that shows the settings for the currently selected modifier(s). This
is actually very close to workflow you suggest.
In any case, I do think that if the simulation features are to be in
the modifier system, then their settings need to be in the same place
as other modifiers' settings. Basically, if they're modifiers, then
they need to really be modifiers, and they need to behave like the
rest of the modifiers, including where their settings are. Maybe we
can move *all* modifier settings elsewhere. But they should all be
found in the same place, regardless of the type of the modifier.
If this doesn't make sense for the simulation features, then I'd
suggest that they don't belong in the modifier stack.
--Nathan V
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zanqdo@gmail.com"><zanqdo@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> I have to strongly (as in a strength that could easily destroy
adamantium) disagree with putting 150 buttons on a modifier just to
have everything in one place. We actually have to move AWAY from that.
for example in the case of nodes, let the nodes make the connections
and have *another* window in charge of displaying what's inside of the
current node. Same goes for complex modifiers. It is a PITA in 2.4X,
sure, but that can be helped in other smarter ways.
Please have a look at this video to see what I mean:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://aviary.com/tools/peacock">http://aviary.com/tools/peacock</a>
Daniel Salazar
Cel: (506) 8366 8384
Offi: (506) 2219 0511
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.3developer.com">www.3developer.com</a>
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 8:16 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bf-taskforce25-request@blender.org"><bf-taskforce25-request@blender.org></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Send Bf-taskforce25 mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Bf-taskforce25 digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Modifier Layout Proposal (Wahooney)
2. Modifiable Particle Systems... (Wahooney)
3. Re: Modifier Layout Proposal (Rob Cozzens)
4. Re: Modifier Layout Proposal (Nathan Vegdahl)
5. Re: Modifier Layout Proposal (Brian Staub)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 21:20:11 +0200
From: Wahooney <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wahooney@wahooney.net"><wahooney@wahooney.net></a>
Subject: [Bf-taskforce25] Modifier Layout Proposal
To: "The Blender 2.5 TaskForce" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bf-taskforce25@blender.org"><bf-taskforce25@blender.org></a>
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:4A1AEF6B.2040206@wahooney.net"><4A1AEF6B.2040206@wahooney.net></a>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 21:37:02 +0200
From: Wahooney <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wahooney@wahooney.net"><wahooney@wahooney.net></a>
Subject: [Bf-taskforce25] Modifiable Particle Systems...
To: "The Blender 2.5 TaskForce" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bf-taskforce25@blender.org"><bf-taskforce25@blender.org></a>
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:4A1AF35E.6070107@wahooney.net"><4A1AF35E.6070107@wahooney.net></a>
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 13:27:39 -0700
From: Rob Cozzens <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:robcozzens@gmail.com"><robcozzens@gmail.com></a>
Subject: Re: [Bf-taskforce25] Modifier Layout Proposal
To: "The Blender 2.5 TaskForce" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bf-taskforce25@blender.org"><bf-taskforce25@blender.org></a>
Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cf6ca0a0905251327y7cdfa968j90bb6d075a6d6865@mail.gmail.com"><cf6ca0a0905251327y7cdfa968j90bb6d075a6d6865@mail.gmail.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
+1 +1 +1!
On May 25, 2009 12:20 PM, "Wahooney" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wahooney@wahooney.net"><wahooney@wahooney.net></a> wrote:
Some ideas were kicked about on IRC about a few changes that could be made
to the way the modifier panel works.
= Keep modifier settings in the modifier panel =
Thomas added the beginnings of the cloth settings tonight, and although it's
looking cool so far it pointed out a fundamental flaw. You are adding the
modifier in one panel in Blender and you're changing it's settings in
another?! That is quite counter intuitive to a new user and most probably a
break in workflow for experienced users (I'm somewhere in between those
extremes and it's grinding my goat already ;) )
= Compact the modifier stack =
The modifier stack can be reduced in total size by quite a bit actually. If
the stack were represented as a list it can take up far less space and it
can allow for a helpful mechanic: The user selects a modifier from the list
and only those settings are shown, saving space and reducing some clutter,
but we can also leverage the current advantage of having multiple modifiers'
settings visible by allowing the user to select multiple modifiers from the
list. The visible modifier's settings can be drawn in the order that they
appear in the stack and that selection can even be locked by the user and
saved into the *NA (DNA,RNA I'm not sure which :P), so a user can set up
their environment to modify a particular object in the way that they need
for the given object, ie. A setup with consecutive SimpleMods and SubSurfs,
chances are if a user were going to animate that object the SubSurfs
probably won't be touched and their settings should probably be hidden.
Note: I know that a stack item can be collapsed into a smaller size, but
sometimes that's not small enough ;)
The list that holds the items can also perhaps have drag 'n drop reordering
(allowing the reordering buttons in the current modifier system to take the
boot) and display the Show/Hide buttons for Render/Viewport/Editing/Cage
that currently reside in the modifier settings.
That's all from me for now.
Keith.
_______________________________________________
Bf-taskforce25 mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Bf-taskforce25@blender.org">Bf-taskforce25@blender.org</a>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 14:17:10 -0700
From: Nathan Vegdahl <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cessen@cessen.com"><cessen@cessen.com></a>
Subject: Re: [Bf-taskforce25] Modifier Layout Proposal
To: "The Blender 2.5 TaskForce" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bf-taskforce25@blender.org"><bf-taskforce25@blender.org></a>
Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bd1b4c730905251417s3bf99cf5q70793adf91ab0b53@mail.gmail.com"><bd1b4c730905251417s3bf99cf5q70793adf91ab0b53@mail.gmail.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The modifier stack can be reduced in total size by quite a bit actually. If
the stack were represented as a list it can take up far less space and it
can allow for a helpful mechanic: The user selects a modifier from the list
and only those settings are shown, saving space and reducing some clutter,
but we can also leverage the current advantage of having multiple modifiers'
settings visible by allowing the user to select multiple modifiers from the
list.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">+1
This sounds like a big usability improvement, IMO. I would definitely
rather work with modifiers this way.
It would also allow for more easily comparing modifiers that are
distant from each other in the stack, which I've needed to do on
occasion.
--Nathan V
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Wahooney <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wahooney@wahooney.net"><wahooney@wahooney.net></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Some ideas were kicked about on IRC about a few changes that could be made
to the way the modifier panel works.
= Keep modifier settings in the modifier panel =
Thomas added the beginnings of the cloth settings tonight, and although it's
looking cool so far it pointed out a fundamental flaw. You are adding the
modifier in one panel in Blender and you're changing it's settings in
another?! That is quite counter intuitive to a new user and most probably a
break in workflow for experienced users (I'm somewhere in between those
extremes and it's grinding my goat already ;) )
= Compact the modifier stack =
The modifier stack can be reduced in total size by quite a bit actually. If
the stack were represented as a list it can take up far less space and it
can allow for a helpful mechanic: The user selects a modifier from the list
and only those settings are shown, saving space and reducing some clutter,
but we can also leverage the current advantage of having multiple modifiers'
settings visible by allowing the user to select multiple modifiers from the
list. The visible modifier's settings can be drawn in the order that they
appear in the stack and that selection can even be locked by the user and
saved into the *NA (DNA,RNA I'm not sure which :P), so a user can set up
their environment to modify a particular object in the way that they need
for the given object, ie. A setup with consecutive SimpleMods and SubSurfs,
chances are if a user were going to animate that object the SubSurfs
probably won't be touched and their settings should probably be hidden.
Note: I know that a stack item can be collapsed into a smaller size, but
sometimes that's not small enough ;)
The list that holds the items can also perhaps have drag 'n drop reordering
(allowing the reordering buttons in the current modifier system to take the
boot) and display the Show/Hide buttons for Render/Viewport/Editing/Cage
that currently reside in the modifier settings.
That's all from me for now.
Keith.
_______________________________________________
Bf-taskforce25 mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Bf-taskforce25@blender.org">Bf-taskforce25@blender.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-taskforce25">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-taskforce25</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 19:16:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Staub <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brian.staub@yahoo.com"><brian.staub@yahoo.com></a>
Subject: Re: [Bf-taskforce25] Modifier Layout Proposal
To: "The Blender 2.5 TaskForce" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bf-taskforce25@blender.org"><bf-taskforce25@blender.org></a>
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:371331.89152.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com"><371331.89152.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
+1 ;)
________________________________
________________________________
From: Nathan Vegdahl <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cessen@cessen.com"><cessen@cessen.com></a>
To: The Blender 2.5 TaskForce <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bf-taskforce25@blender.org"><bf-taskforce25@blender.org></a>
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 4:17:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Bf-taskforce25] Modifier Layout Proposal
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The modifier stack can be reduced in total size by quite a bit actually. If
the stack were represented as a list it can take up far less space and it
can allow for a helpful mechanic: The user selects a modifier from the list
and only those settings are shown, saving space and reducing some clutter,
but we can also leverage the current advantage of having multiple modifiers'
settings visible by allowing the user to select multiple modifiers from the
list.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">+1
This sounds like a big usability improvement, IMO. I would definitely
rather work with modifiers this way.
It would also allow for more easily comparing modifiers that are
distant from each other in the stack, which I've needed to do on
occasion.
--Nathan V
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Wahooney <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wahooney@wahooney.net"><wahooney@wahooney.net></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Some ideas were kicked about on IRC about a few changes that could be made
to the way the modifier panel works.
= Keep modifier settings in the modifier panel =
Thomas added the beginnings of the cloth settings tonight, and although it's
looking cool so far it pointed out a fundamental flaw. You are adding the
modifier in one panel in Blender and you're changing it's settings in
another?! That is quite counter intuitive to a new user and most probably a
break in workflow for experienced users (I'm somewhere in between those
extremes and it's grinding my goat already ;) )
= Compact the modifier stack =
The modifier stack can be reduced in total size by quite a bit actually. If
the stack were represented as a list it can take up far less space and it
can allow for a helpful mechanic: The user selects a modifier from the list
and only those settings are shown, saving space and reducing some clutter,
but we can also leverage the current advantage of having multiple modifiers'
settings visible by allowing the user to select multiple modifiers from the
list. The visible modifier's settings can be drawn in the order that they
appear in the stack and that selection can even be locked by the user and
saved into the *NA (DNA,RNA I'm not sure which :P), so a user can set up
their environment to modify a particular object in the way that they need
for the given object, ie. A setup with consecutive SimpleMods and SubSurfs,
chances are if a user were going to animate that object the SubSurfs
probably won't be touched and their settings should probably be hidden.
Note: I know that a stack item can be collapsed into a smaller size, but
sometimes that's not small enough ;)
The list that holds the items can also perhaps have drag 'n drop reordering
(allowing the reordering buttons in the current modifier system to take the
boot) and display the Show/Hide buttons for Render/Viewport/Editing/Cage
that currently reside in the modifier settings.
That's all from me for now.
Keith.
_______________________________________________
Bf-taskforce25 mailing list
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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</pre>
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