<div dir="ltr">Offline chat with Campbell has convinced me that the current options have utility. To record here:<div><br></div><div>- offset_even can produce long internal 'spikes' from reflex vertices, so for, say, organic models the annoyance of those spikes is greater than the annoyance of not having an even thickness inset; hence the desire to be able to turn off offset_even sometimes</div><div>- with large regions or polygons that have fine details (bumps, serifs, etc.) along their outline, using offset_relative can sometimes avoid help self intersections in those fine detail areas while allowing larger insets along the long edges; so offset_relative can be useful in more than just the case of insetting many independent faces of differing scales</div><div>- as many have said, the boundary option has a number of uses</div><div><br></div><div>There's still some argument that the factor multiplied by for offset_relative should be normalized somehow, so that the largest thickness has factor 1; but nobody is complaining about this right now.</div><div><br></div><div>So I will leave the options as is.</div><div><br></div><div>But it remains the case that to implement the functionality I want -- handling self collisions, a la straight skeletons (see <a href="http://web.engr.illinois.edu/~jeffe/pubs/pdf/cycles.pdf">http://web.engr.illinois.edu/~jeffe/pubs/pdf/cycles.pdf</a>) -- is a lot harder if not offset_even and/or if offset_relative is on, so I will, at least for now, not implement this functionality in those cases.</div><div><br></div><div>- Howard</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:39 AM Ray Mairlot <<a href="mailto:madog_theone@hotmail.co.uk">madog_theone@hotmail.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000">
<div>Just thought I would throw my two cents in and say I tend to use the
boundary option when insetting faces on a model with a mirror modifier. The
boundary option allows both the real face and the mirrored face to act as one,
instead of creating inset faces along the edge of the mirror seam. Can’t say I
know what other options do, I haven’t found the need to investigate them.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ray.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="jonathan@cgcookie.com" href="mailto:jonathan@cgcookie.com" target="_blank">Jonathan Williamson</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 27, 2015 2:29 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="bf-modeling@blender.org" href="mailto:bf-modeling@blender.org" target="_blank">bf-modeling@blender.org</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bf-modeling] inset options</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline">
<div dir="ltr">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13px">I don't usually touch the Offset controls but quite
regularly toggle the boundary option. It can be very useful to quickly create
equidistant edge loops for example.</span></blockquote>
<div>Same here. I toggle Boundary all the time, but very seldom adjust the
Offset Even or Offset Relative.</div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Jonathan Williamson
<div><a href="http://cgcookie.com" target="_blank">http://cgcookie.com</a></div></div></div></div>
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 6:29 AM, Howard Trickey <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:howard.trickey@gmail.com" target="_blank">howard.trickey@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div dir="ltr">Well I've answered my own questions with a bit more searching and
trying things out.
<div> </div>
<div>It seems that 'offset relative' is useful if one is doing a lot of
individual insets all at once, and the polygons you are insetting vary in size
from large to small. You might like the thickness of the inset to scale down
as the polygon scales down. I saw a discussion about making shells where this
was true, for instance.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>And I do see that Boundary can make a useful difference when insetting a
region, so now I see the point of that one.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I do question the method used for 'offset relative', however. What it
does now is multiply the thickness at each corner by the average length of the
two adjacent sides. For rectangles this gives an even inset, but for polygons
with differing lengths and angles at each corner, the result is that the inset
shape does not match the shape of the original (that is, there is not a
constant thickness between the original edges and the inset ones). Is
this desired and useful? I would have thought that most people would want and
expect the 'even thickness' property. Maybe a better way to calculate the
factor for offset relative would be to multiply the thickness by the average
edge length of the whole polgyon? That would lead to an even offset. Or, even
better, multiply by the ratio of the average edge length of the whole polygon
to the max average edge length over all polygons in the selection? That way,
the user-specified 'thickness' value would have an intuitive meaning (the
inset thickness for the biggest polygon) whereas right now you have to specify
a really small thickness if your polygon edges happen to have a large scale --
only the relative change in thickness makes any sense.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Also, the current ability to specify 'offset relative' and 'offset even'
independently of each other seems a bit strange. Don't people always want
'offset even'? (And thus, why have the option). With 'offset relative' being
an added feature on top of that to get the 'polygon scale' scaling of the
thickness, but remaining even?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Marc: your question about UV interpolation for Depth. I think you mean
this case: if you give a non-zero depth but a zero thickness, so that the
effect of the inset is the same as extrude region, then the walls of the
extrusion get mapped into zero-area rectangles (they appear to be lines) in
the original UV map. And you'd like some non-zero area there to play with.
Extrude has the same problem. The issue here is that it is not clear
what math to use to get this, because then the top face(s) will not get the
ideal UV interpolation compared to the original UV map -- some kind of
artificially made-up shrink factor has to be applied to those faces in the UV
map in order to make room for the walls to have non-zero area. What
shrink factor should be used?</div>
<div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 5:20 AM Marc Dion <<a href="mailto:marcdion1974@gmail.com" target="_blank">marcdion1974@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div dir="ltr">Correction, I meant "Depth" when I said "Offset" in the
previous post. <br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 2:19 AM, Marc Dion <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marcdion1974@gmail.com" target="_blank">marcdion1974@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>To me, those changes seem good. I feel like they all produce
the same results with only the slider value being at a different place
depending on the choice made. Those extra options seem like
redundant clutter.<br><br></div>----<br>In addition to the changes you
mentioned, would you be willing to put some thought into adding UV
interpolation for the Offset option? <br><br>When using UV's/Inset,
it's almost certain a person would like to see some area of the UV's
assigned to any new geometry since not having UV space assigned to new
faces does tend to cause baked textures to fail at what they do.
Same for texture painting. <br><br><br></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 6:57 PM, metalliandy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:metalliandy666@googlemail.com" target="_blank">metalliandy666@googlemail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Hey Howard,<br><br>I don't usually
touch the Offset controls but quite regularly toggle the boundary
option. It can be very useful to quickly create equidistant edge loops
for example.<br><br>As a side note I think Edge Rail would benefit from
being on by default as having it off can cause some some subd smoothing
issues and somewhat messier geometry.<br><br>Cheers,<br><br>-Andy
<div>
<div><br><br><br>
<div>On 27/08/2015 02:07, Howard Trickey wrote:<br></div></div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">I'm working on a possible change to inset (optional
corrections for self intersections/crossings) and was wondering about
several options in the existing tool.
<div> </div>
<div>Boundary - does anyone ever turn this off?</div>
<div>Offset Even - does anyone ever turn this off?</div>
<div>Offset Relative - does anyone ever turn this on?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In particular, 'offset relative' makes the geometry of what
happens after self intersections much more complicated, so I was
wondering if anyone would miss these options if they were gone and if
also acted like just 'Offset Even' is on. (And Boundary; I don't
really care about Boundary, but it does seem unlikely to me that
people would turn that one off.)</div>
<div> </div></div><br>
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