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yes sir!<br />
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<p>On 09-09-2014, Jeffrey wrote:</p>
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<pre>What about something similar to how the Octane team avoided the GPL
limits? They used an external server program that piped all the render
data between Octane and Blender which avoided mixing the code.
On 09/09/2014 05:48 AM, <a href="mailto:bf-gamedev-request@blender.org">bf-gamedev-request@blender.org</a>wrote:</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Send Bf-gamedev mailing list submissions to <a href="mailto:bf-gamedev@blender.org">bf-gamedev@blender.org</a> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev</a> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to <a href="mailto:bf-gamedev-request@blender.org">bf-gamedev-request@blender.org</a> You can reach the person managing the list at <a href="mailto:bf-gamedev-owner@blender.org">bf-gamedev-owner@blender.org</a> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Bf-gamedev digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support (Bastien Montagne) 2. Re: Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support (<a href="mailto:mail@smokythaklown.com">mail@smokythaklown.com</a>) 3. Re: Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support (Crs Mrn) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 12:07:45 +0200 From: Bastien Montagne <<a href="mailto:montagne29@wanadoo.fr">montagne29@wanadoo.fr</a>> Subject: Re: [Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support To: <a href="mailto:bf-gamedev@blender.org">bf-gamedev@blender.org</a> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:540ED171.5020503@wanadoo.fr">540ED171.5020503@wanadoo.fr</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi, And thanks for the link, unfortunately this is just a tweaked version of the work from guys at <a href="http://blenderfbx.render.jp/">http://blenderfbx.render.jp/</a> . Aside from the fact that they add another intermediate step (their own .bos format), the real issue with their tool is that it uses umconv, which uses? FBX SDK! If we could use FBX SDK, things would be hundreds times simpler for us. But FBX SDK is everything but opensource, which means we cannot use (distribute) it with Blender. Cheers, Bastien Le 09/09/2014 11:47, <a href="mailto:mail@smokythaklown.com">mail@smokythaklown.com</a>a ?crit :
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"><a href="http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/">http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/</a>Check with this cat working on the fbx armature import. You might already be aware of his efforts, just trying to help. On 08-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote:
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Hi all, So, as everyone probably already knows, we are struggling like Hell to try to support FBX format in Blender. We already spent a **huge** amount of energy on this, for rather mitigated results so far (to summarize, roughly static object/mesh/material export works quite good, basic animation too. Camera/lamp orientation handling are buggy, and armature handling is kind of nightmare). Now, what I propose is to add a second fbx io addon (as contrib), **clearly flagged as experimental**, where we can put any dirty/bad-tested/etc. development. The point is, I want a place where I can do whatever I want, without considering things like 'good code', 'maintainable code', 'readable code', 'stable code', 'non-crashing code', etc. - and yet get it in all and every Blender release and build, so that anyone involved in FBX pipeline can easily test it, without waisting time in mails pingpong and such. Once an issue is clearly solved in bad experimental addon, we can think to a good and nice way to implement it in good one. I would start to put Jens? work in this experimental version, and see whether it enhances armature handling for artists. In the mean time, I?ll try to go over all unfixed FBX reports I got in past months, and establish a list of basic, simple FBX test cases I need to try to understand those issues better. Then, I?d ask artists having 'ref FBX applications' to generate such files. Please let me know if you see something wrong in here, or something to add (and yes, I know experimental addon is dirty). Cheers, Bastien _______________________________________________ Bf-gamedev mailing list <a href="mailto:Bf-gamedev@blender.org">Bf-gamedev@blender.org</a> Bf-gamedev@blender.org> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev</a></blockquote>
_______________________________________________ Bf-gamedev mailing list <a href="mailto:Bf-gamedev@blender.org">Bf-gamedev@blender.org</a> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev</a></blockquote>
-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <a href="http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-gamedev/attachments/20140909/e5dd400a/attachment-0001.htm">http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-gamedev/attachments/20140909/e5dd400a/attachment-0001.htm</a> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 12:14:27 +0000 From: <a href="mailto:mail@smokythaklown.com">mail@smokythaklown.com</a> Subject: Re: [Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support To: <<a href="mailto:bf-gamedev@blender.org">bf-gamedev@blender.org</a>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:b503f6a15151533e9a0f4ed98c822aae@smokythaklown.com">b503f6a15151533e9a0f4ed98c822aae@smokythaklown.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My personal honest opinion.. about what your actually doing is devoting time for people to use autodesk/unity3d/daz&poser rather then blender/BGE/makehuman. I understand the goal, and maybe a year ago i would have even spent money for you to develop in this area.. but in the long run imagine what could have been done for blender itself with the massive amount of time spent . My theory is we make snakes work, snakes dont make us work. -dont get me wrong, alot of blender community is indeed grateful to the fbx efforts especially for jobs that clients request specific formats and applications, but overall more harm is being done to blender itself. Just my opinion, hope it alters reality in a positive way small or big. Good luck! *dont kill yourself over fbx On 09-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote:
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Hi, And thanks for the</blockquote>
link, unfortunately this is just a tweaked version of the work from guys at <a href="http://blenderfbx.render.jp/">http://blenderfbx.render.jp/</a>[6] . Aside from the fact that they add another intermediate step (their own .bos format), the real issue with their tool is that it uses umconv, which uses? FBX SDK!
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">If we could</blockquote>
use FBX SDK, things would be hundreds times simpler for us. But FBX SDK is everything but opensource, which means we cannot use (distribute) it with Blender.
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Cheers, Bastien Le 09/09/2014 11:47,</blockquote>
<a href="mailto:mail@smokythaklown.com">mail@smokythaklown.com</a> [7] a ?crit : <a href="http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/">http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/</a>[3]
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Check with this cat working on the fbx armature import. You</blockquote>
</blockquote>
might already be aware of his efforts, just trying to help.
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">On</blockquote>
</blockquote>
08-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote:
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Hi all, So, as</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
everyone probably already knows, we are struggling like Hell to
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">try</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
to support FBX format in Blender. We already spent a **huge** amount
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">of energy on this, for rather mitigated results so far (to</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
summarize,
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<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">roughly static object/mesh/material export works quite</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
good, basic
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">animation too. Camera/lamp orientation handling are</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
buggy, and armature
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">handling is kind of nightmare). Now,</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
what I propose is to add a second fbx io addon (as contrib), **clearly flagged as experimental**, where we can put any dirty/bad-tested/etc. development. The point is, I want a place where I
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">can do whatever I want, without considering things like 'good</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
code',
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<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">'maintainable code', 'readable code', 'stable code',</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
'non-crashing
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<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">code', etc. - and yet get it in all and every Blender</blockquote>
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release and build,
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">so that anyone involved in FBX pipeline can</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
easily test it, without
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">waisting time in mails pingpong and</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
such.
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Once an issue is clearly solved in bad experimental</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
addon, we can think
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">to a good and nice way to implement it in good</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
one.
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">I would start to put Jens' work in this experimental</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
version, and see
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">whether it enhances armature handling for</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
artists.
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">In the mean time, I'll try to go over all unfixed FBX</blockquote>
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reports I got in
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<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">past months, and establish a list of basic, simple</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
FBX test cases I need
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">to try to understand those issues better.</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Then, I'd ask artists having
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<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">'ref FBX applications' to generate</blockquote>
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such files.
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Please let me know if you see something wrong in</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
here, or something to
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<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">add (and yes, I know experimental addon is</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
dirty).
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<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Cheers, Bastien</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
_______________________________________________
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<a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev</a> [5] Links: ------ [1] mailto:<a href="mailto:Bf-gamedev@blender.org">Bf-gamedev@blender.org</a> [2] <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev</a> [3] <a href="http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/">http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/</a> [4] mailto:<a href="mailto:Bf-gamedev@blender.org">Bf-gamedev@blender.org</a> [5] <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev</a> [6] <a href="http://blenderfbx.render.jp/">http://blenderfbx.render.jp/</a> [7] mailto:<a href="mailto:mail@smokythaklown.com">mail@smokythaklown.com</a> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <a href="http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-gamedev/attachments/20140909/fe25512a/attachment-0001.htm">http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-gamedev/attachments/20140909/fe25512a/attachment-0001.htm</a> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 15:48:41 +0300 From: Crs Mrn <<a href="mailto:mahri726@gmail.com">mahri726@gmail.com</a>> Subject: Re: [Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support To: <a href="mailto:bf-gamedev@blender.org">bf-gamedev@blender.org</a> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:CABPSr7_TcABk3v9FF6qXMzxqJUbQXsOtA1UuQ4dPdkwqM82qew@mail.gmail.com">CABPSr7_TcABk3v9FF6qXMzxqJUbQXsOtA1UuQ4dPdkwqM82qew@mail.gmail.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I think there might be ways to use FBX SDK in a way that could not interfere with GPL. The license says that it cannot be bundled with Blender. I guess that this could be solved by using a custom repository plugin. You open the plugin inside Blender, and it displays you a list of things you could download. On this list, there could be the FBX plugin made using FBX SDK. In order to shield the SDK source from GPL, a intermediary piece of code might be needed. When you firstly start Blender, that download plugin downloads the FBX plugin automaticly, for all users. I think there could be ways to dodge GPL in order to use the official FBX SDK. ?n data de 09.09.2014 15:14, <<a href="mailto:mail@smokythaklown.com">mail@smokythaklown.com</a>> a scris:
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">My personal honest opinion.. about what your actually doing is devoting time for people to use autodesk/unity3d/daz&poser rather then blender/BGE/makehuman. I understand the goal, and maybe a year ago i would have even spent money for you to develop in this area.. but in the long run imagine what could have been done for blender itself with the massive amount of time spent . My theory is we make snakes work, snakes dont make us work. -dont get me wrong, alot of blender community is indeed grateful to the fbx efforts especially for jobs that clients request specific formats and applications, but overall more harm is being done to blender itself. Just my opinion, hope it alters reality in a positive way small or big. Good luck! *dont kill yourself over fbx On 09-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote: Hi, And thanks for the link, unfortunately this is just a tweaked version of the work from guys at <a href="http://blenderfbx.render.jp/">http://blenderfbx.render.jp/</a> . Aside from the fact that they add another intermediate step (their own .bos format), the real issue with their tool is that it uses umconv, which uses? FBX SDK! If we could use FBX SDK, things would be hundreds times simpler for us. But FBX SDK is everything but opensource, which means we cannot use (distribute) it with Blender. Cheers, Bastien Le 09/09/2014 11:47, <a href="mailto:mail@smokythaklown.com">mail@smokythaklown.com</a> a ?crit : <a href="http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/">http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/</a> Check with this cat working on the fbx armature import. You might already be aware of his efforts, just trying to help. On 08-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote: Hi all, So, as everyone probably already knows, we are struggling like Hell to try to support FBX format in Blender. We already spent a **huge** amount of energy on this, for rather mitigated results so far (to summarize, roughly static object/mesh/material export works quite good, basic animation too. Camera/lamp orientation handling are buggy, and armature handling is kind of nightmare). Now, what I propose is to add a second fbx io addon (as contrib), **clearly flagged as experimental**, where we can put any dirty/bad-tested/etc. development. The point is, I want a place where I can do whatever I want, without considering things like 'good code', 'maintainable code', 'readable code', 'stable code', 'non-crashing code', etc. - and yet get it in all and every Blender release and build, so that anyone involved in FBX pipeline can easily test it, without waisting time in mails pingpong and such. Once an issue is clearly solved in bad experimental addon, we can think to a good and nice way to implement it in good one. I would start to put Jens? work in this experimental version, and see whether it enhances armature handling for artists. In the mean time, I?ll try to go over all unfixed FBX reports I got in past months, and establish a list of basic, simple FBX test cases I need to try to understand those issues better. Then, I?d ask artists having 'ref FBX applications' to generate such files. Please let me know if you see something wrong in here, or something to add (and yes, I know experimental addon is dirty). Cheers, Bastien _______________________________________________ Bf-gamedev mailing <a href="mailto:listBf-gamedev@blender.orghttp:">listBf-gamedev@blender.orghttp:</a>//lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev _______________________________________________ Bf-gamedev mailing <a href="mailto:listBf-gamedev@blender.orghttp:">listBf-gamedev@blender.orghttp:</a>//lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev _______________________________________________ Bf-gamedev mailing list <a href="mailto:Bf-gamedev@blender.org">Bf-gamedev@blender.org</a> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev</a></blockquote>
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