<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV><DIV>On Mar 8, 2007, at 3:51 PM, Matt Ebb wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR><DIV><DIV>On 09/03/2007, at 12:08 AM, Michael Crawford wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR><DIV><DIV>On Mar 8, 2007, at 2:20 AM, Stéphane Grabli wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">In short: How should a contour-line renderer be integrated <BR>to Blender?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Well. I think the compositing node was a really bad idea </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><DIV>However, even if freestyle doesn't work as a post process, it would still be great to have various render pass outputs to the compositor via the render result node, so you can tweak it later.<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Just to be clear, in case i wasn't earlier (I was in a hurry):</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Multiple renderers already work with linked scenes. I often use this to my advantage: for example, i have a background scene at half/quarter res in another scene, then set one of the "render result" nodes in another scene to use that scene, scale it up, set up a blur.... etc. The result is, when I hit render, all the scenes, layers, etc, dependent on the final composite get rendered at once. This allows me to set up render with multiple renderers and composite by hitting one button. I can use fancy effects (Yafray HDRI etc) in the background and get away with it since i'm rendering at such a low res... Since it's blurred, one sample per pixel should even be enough...</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>If all Freestyle does is plop out fancy outlines, that's great. If it's integrated as another renderer it can be used through another scene.... for example:</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I can have</DIV><DIV> scene 1: Blender</DIV><DIV> scene 1: Freestyle</DIV><DIV>I can either choose one scene to be a master or create a third, such as:</DIV><DIV> scene 1: Composite, in which i can call the two other scenes.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>In the "scene 1: Freestyle" scene I could set objects to use separate materials (blender conveniently lets you do this) while still maintaining any other changes that are made (such as tweaks to an animation etc.) This would allow me to adjust freestyle shading attributes on a per-object basis, and control exactly how it is composited.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV> This is already the case with Blender's current 'edge' output.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Throwing another idea out there: What if freestyle was integrated as another material type? It could be done in a similar way to how Halo works. That way it would be much easier to integrate both line rendered and non-line rendered imagery in the one shot.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span">A few questions: How would lines <B>and</B> the regular material work at the same time. I mean, i can't assign two materials to the same object can I? If it was changed into another material type like "halo" wouldn't that involve integration into the main renderer? Hey. If Ton goes for it, great!, but i can see reasons he would rather not.</SPAN></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Personally, I'd like to see a plethora of renderers supported by blender, so I could use the best renderer per element/pass. Perhaps a Universal Rendering Interface / API of some sort could be proposed, designed, and implemented so third parties can easily integrate into blender without python (a language that is constantly changing) scripts. If this was done, perhaps the renderers could even send previews to blender on request (very handy for the preview window). Right now, I use Blender's internal renderer almost exclusively, chiefly becuase it is "wysiwyg". I would love to be able to use renderers like Pixie (aah the glory of REYES), Indigo, or even PrMan within blender... Being a cvs addict, however, scripts that worked one day, often break the next, (python grrrr...).</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>This could also have added benefits. AFAIK If renderers were completely seperate external processes (merely communicating with blender for example), that would allow them to either work around the 64 bit limitation, or, in the case of Mac OS / Linux, use 64 bit natively. As I understand it, the reluctance to switch to 64 bit is only because of the problems with blender's sDNA design (breaking file compatability). So... who cares if the renderer, a seperate, completely output process, is 64 bit. That's the only place it is really needed anyway. And... OSX Tiger supports 64 bit command line apps... Perhaps the renderer can act like a frameserver, recieving data, and forwarding rendered frames back to blender...</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>At least that's the way I understand it. I may be wrong, I quit developing a few years back (burn out) and went into art.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Matt</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Grande; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Grande; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Lucida Grande; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>------------------------------------------</DIV><DIV>Matt Ebb . <A href="mailto:matt@mke3.net">matt@mke3.net</A> . <A href="http://mke3.net">http://mke3.net</A></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Bf-funboard mailing list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:Bf-funboard@projects.blender.org">Bf-funboard@projects.blender.org</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://projects.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard">http://projects.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>