<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Mar 8, 2007, at 6:42 PM, Matt Ebb wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR><DIV><SPAN class="gmail_quote">On 3/9/07, <B class="gmail_sendername">Michael Crawford</B> <<A href="mailto:psyborgue@mac.com">psyborgue@mac.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN><BLOCKQUOTE class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <DIV style=""><DIV><SPAN class="q"></SPAN>Just to be clear, in case i wasn't earlier (I was in a hurry):<DIV><BR></DIV><DIV>Multiple renderers already work with linked scenes.</DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR>I'm aware of this, we used it extensively in ED and I'm using it right now at work. And although it can be flexible and useful as a way of making complicated things possible, I certainly wouldn't call it convenient. </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><DIV>It's a lot of hassle to divide things up into multiple scenes, set up the render layers, set up data links between objects (i.e. do you want objects linked? or their data? but different materials?), and even after you've gone through this whole process, when you're working with multiple scenes it's extremely easy to get lost and confused, trying to keep track of what objects are linked to where and what ipos are controlling them. It's also messy when you're switching back and forward between different Screens, with different Scenes per Screen. And another problem with multiple scenes is that object relationships (parenting, constraints) go crazy between objects on different scenes, since the Dependency graph is per-scene. This was a problem in ED in the 'giant hands' shots, since each hand had to be rendered on a separate scene to save memory. <BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I definately aggree that it can be a total pain in the ass, but AFAIK no program allows using multiple renderers at the same time at all. The fact that it is even possible at all is fantastic.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>BTW. I've wanted to ask you. how in the hell did you get around that vicious curve bug in that scene. It's been driving my nuts recently (trying to create wires / cabling for a cyborg and they keep getting kinks when the curve tangent hits a certain axis.) Did you just use armatures to deform the curves? See, i wanted to use hooks and soft bodies since the curves are on extremities and the movement is noticeable...</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>That bug has been around for ages... any advice on avoiding it? (email me privately since it's not "functionality" if you want). I appreciate it.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><DIV>Anyway, having such a feature to split a freestyle render across scenes would of course be useful and good to have, but I don't think it's a good idea for it to be the primary method of using such a feature. It's out of the reach of many newer users and it's inconvenient even if you do know what you're doing. <BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I agree. An easy way of enabling "toon edges" would be handy, especially for the... hey wait. what about a material node? Why composite in post if you can do it in the material? One could simply blend a freestyle node in with the existing shader....</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><DIV></DIV><BLOCKQUOTE class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><DIV style=""><DIV><DIV>Personally, I'd like to see a plethora of renderers supported by blender, so I could use the best renderer per element/pass. Perhaps a Universal Rendering Interface / API of some sort could be proposed, designed, and implemented so third parties can easily integrate into blender without python (a language that is constantly changing) scripts. </DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR>Absolutely, that would be great as a general thing but it's also a wider scope if you're talking about 'integrating freestyle with Blender' as opposed to providing a connection to external renderers. If the freestyle people would like it to be integrated with Blender, then I'd like to see it integrated as tightly and as easy to use as possible. <BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I totally agree. The question is how? I mean... Yafray has been around for a good while and it's integration with blender leaves a lot to be desired (granted their developers are off and on). If Freestyle can accomplish this on their own / with Ton's help, it would be great, however, why not kill two birds with one stone, opening up the rendering API using Freestyle as a "test case". Might a little more work in the short term make things a lot easier (with perhaps many more benefits) in the long-term. As far as I know, opening up the rendering API is already being talked about, so why not combine these two projects?</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><DIV>cheers,<BR><BR>Matt</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Peace,</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Mike</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Bf-funboard mailing list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:Bf-funboard@projects.blender.org">Bf-funboard@projects.blender.org</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://projects.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard">http://projects.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>