[Bf-funboard] general comments and funcionality improvement suggestions

Campbell Barton ideasman42 at gmail.com
Wed Mar 28 00:53:50 CEST 2012


error, corretion below.

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Campbell Barton <ideasman42 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm ignoring pressing numpad 0 switching back to last view issue -
> this is an intentional feature, but rather not discuss it for now.
>
> so it boils down to: Middle mouse drag in camera view COULD/SHOULD
> keep my view (frame same area of view - zoom/pan)
>
> listed 4 possible solutions, 1 workaround :)
>
> == first/obvious option ==
> This is tricky because for it to work...
>
> * The regular viewport would need a SHIFT X/Y feature,
> ...notice if you zoom in the side of the camera view the vanishing
> point is no longer centered,
>
> * Middle Click Dragging would have to change the Field-of-view
> ...notice if you zoom in camera view it changes the FOV (zoom out
> becomes wide angle).
>
>
>
> This is of course possible - but I really think this would become more annoying
>
> 1) you would have this new/strange shift setting in the viewport which
> would need to be controlled somehow (yet another setting we need
> buttons, viewport manipulation for) - really for common work having
> FOV in regular viewport is overkill IMHO,

... for common work having ***SHIFT X/Y*** in regular viewport is
overkill IMHO ...

>
> 2) Changing the users FOV every time they go out of camera view would
> also be irritating IMHO, sometimes.
>
>
> == cheating option 1 ==
>
> So when you MMB drag the view it can just cheat - make a `ghost` copy
> of the camera that is not displayed in the scene - and only exists for
> the purpose of view navigation,
>
> This can work but I worry it makes our code a bit messy and is a
> fairly bad hack for a spesific use case, users would also need to be
> aware that a view is in this new `mode`, and have a way to get out of
> it.
>
>
> == cheating option 2 ==
>
> Allow the camera to be moved but dont adjust its location rotation (a
> temporary transform which isnt stored in the object - internally this
> would change the final matrix but not the loc/scale/rot).
>
> Again, can work but is adding an exceptional case we have to keep
> supporting (camera matrix and location being intentionally out of
> sync) and think this could backfire easily and be hard to support.
>
>
> == best guess ==
>
> Without adding viewport shift or changing FOV.
> Surely its possible to place the view *roughly* in the same place as
> you are zoomed to?
>
> eeeh - well yes - but you would need to check on the depth of objects
> infront of you - then re-position the view based on this to
> *approximately* frame those same objects,
>
> I think this is the best option since it doesnt add difficult to
> support code - and only changes the behavior in oneplace.
>
> Still, guesses can be infuriatingly wrong - should empties/lamps be
> included? - should the median depth be used or the closest object?
> what if there is 1px of a close object in the view, should that be
> ignored? etc........
>
>
> == don't solve, workaround ==
>
> You will notice in non camera view, Shft+B, will border zoom onto an
> area (using depth), currently Shif+B is used for border render in the
> camear view but with some keybinding changes we can easy have it
> working.
>
> This way you can define a region of interest and move out of camera
> view to zoom into it.
>
> The operator that does this could very easily have an option to
> initialize its border from the view bounds so you dont actually need
> to draw the border.
>
> Once this is done is basically just a matter of adding access to this
> feature in a way that suits you. Im not convinced this is good default
> behavior - because it will zoom into a small object if there is only
> one in the scene, but It could be configured to be useful to the
> porpose you are taking about IMHO.
>
> Perhaps just having a way to access border zoom in camera mode would be enough.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 3:30 AM, Steven Schoorens <bollebib at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That is exactly what I mean
>> You put it so much better then I did XD
>>
>> and I would also second your request.
>> I havent worked with multiple camera's yet,in blender, but mostly I prefer only one.
>> So maybe it could be that there are 2 ways to work with this: One way is to make a new camera with some shortcut as you propose (I think),but I would also propose a second suboption that lets you reuse your current camera if you so wish-> this way you move the camera and put a keyframe (with autokeyframe on)automaticly. Doing this you can quickly move through your scene AND in time to make quick camera movements,and refine them afterwards.
>>
>>
>> wouldn't this maybe tie in a bit with your last request ? (save and load view states)
>> But it might still be good to have that last feature as well. I notice that 9 on the numpad is the only number not doing anything viewport related right now (unless I'm missing something?)
>> Maybe it might be good to assign that button to that feature,and pressing "9" will get you the Floating saved view list,Shift+9 lets you add new views,alt+9 lets you remove them
>>
>>
>>
>> this way you save multple views you find interesting and recall them as needed...
>>
>> I think this would work fine,unless someone has a different idea?
>>
>>
>>
>> kind regards
>>
>>
>> Steven
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:32:04 +0200
>>> From: j at zafio.com
>>> To: bf-funboard at blender.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] general comments and funcionality improvement      suggestions
>>>
>>> If I understood it right, your concern is the transition from Camera View
>>> to 3d View, which happens when rotating (or even just press MMB once) so
>>> the "jumpcut" would be the small "zoom out" that leaves the camera's
>>> "gizmo" just in front, right?
>>> Plus any panning and zooming you do in Camera view is lost when you switch
>>> to 3d view...
>>>
>>> So, you want an option for the 3d view to inherit the "view state/settings"
>>> of the active camera, so there is a clear and flickerless transition, right?
>>>
>>> I think it is a good idea, in fact, it would be also interesting to add the
>>> "inverse" option to match the camera to the 3d view.
>>> As it is pretty usual you move around a scene in 3d view and you find a
>>> nice angle you want to use to render, but you have to create a camera and
>>> recreate the same settings... which takes more time than checking an option
>>> or pressing a shortcut.
>>>
>>> This last option could be also integrated right in the "add camera" panel,
>>> and even creating it from the Add menu or with a shortcut, adding SHIFT or
>>> ALT.
>>>
>>> Another interesting feature would be to save and load view states (for
>>> either 3d views or Cameras), rather than having to create lots of cameras.
>>> It is faster to press a shortcut, than having to create and setup a new
>>> camera each time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Bol Bib <bollebib at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Hello and thank you very much for replying ^^
>>> >
>>> > I call it "snap back" but it's actually more of a 'jumpcut' sort of thing.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >  I'll talk you through the steps I take for a real use scenario:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I'm in animating stage of my work process(but doesn't matter which process
>>> > you are in really...),and I just want to animate and look at how everything
>>> > will look in the camera,.
>>> > So I push '0' and I get the camera view. I move stuff around, I zoom
>>> > in/zoom out,move the 3D view up/down,but remain in camera view mode (so no
>>> > rotation of the 3Dview).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Then I want to animate some detail which for whatever reason doesn't quite
>>> > work from the camera view (for example:the object I want to animate is
>>> > behind the object )
>>> > so I'd have to rotate to get a better view of the bone/object,right?
>>> > But when you try to rotate the viewport/3D view when you are IN Camera
>>> > mode and you have done several operations with the 3D view (zoomed in/out,
>>> > moved 3Dview...)
>>> > as soon as you rotate the view you snap back to where the camera phyiscly
>>> > is,in the scene,and any zoom or move you had,is gone,and you have to
>>> > re-zoom en re-move your viewport to where you were working on.
>>> > This can be could annoying when having to to lots of small tweaks to an
>>> > animation or a model or a scene.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -So in short this is how blender now acts:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > press 0 ->move and zoom 3D view a bit->when trying to rotate=> JUMPCUT to
>>> > where camera really is ,and only then normal 3Dview behaviour (which is not
>>> > wanted behaviour.)
>>> >
>>> > -THis is what I would like
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > press 0 ->move and zoom 3D View a bit->when trying to rotate=> Just normal
>>> > 3D view behaviour, the Camera contour/passepartout just disappears without
>>> > the need for a jump
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Of course this problem is not such a problem if you use different 3D views
>>> > at once (so you can have a dedicated camera view viewport),
>>> > but this greatly reduces screen estate and not every one has multiple
>>> > monitors,or a huge one to make up for that.
>>> >
>>> >  When repressing '0' ,apparently the camera view still remembers those
>>> > view translations,which is good. But this issue make me lose quite a bit of
>>> > time because of needing to re-zoom and/re-move the viewport every time I
>>> > rotate out of the camera view
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -to recap:  I just want the camera view to behave like any other 3D
>>> > viewport,in that when you rotate the view,it just rotates like a 3D view.
>>> > You DO in fact LEAVE the camera view (as it is now),but leave it WITHOUT
>>> > any jumps in the viewport.
>>> >
>>> > The "lock camera to view "mode make the 3D view behave like a normal
>>> > viewport but it ACTUALLY moves the camera. So you would have to reposition
>>> > your camera if you did this,which is no solution to my problem.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Does anyone NEED that kind of snapback/jumpcut? If they do,then make my
>>> > "solution" ,if you deem it just, an option. If they don't, well maybe this
>>> > could/should be default behaviour?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I hope this is clear ,now,if you have any more questions I'd be happy to
>>> > answer them.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Incidentally,are my other "issues" in that huge "wishlist"(and in the
>>> > second one) clear? Am I just being an entitled bastard? (very possibly...)
>>> > Or are some points worthy of being considered?
>>> > I just wish to complete some workparadigms the people at blender obviously
>>> > had in mind, and extend them to the whole program (like the filters,Follow
>>> > Context...),
>>> > as opposed to only here and there (like in some cases right now) and
>>> > propose some ideas to make blender even more awesome then it is.
>>> > I do not think I'm asking for very difficult stuff (like bmesh or cycles
>>> > or a pony XD) but ,in my opinion, stuff that would make lots of people's
>>> > workflow much more enjoyable,quick and organised (like filters, hiding of
>>> > UI elements...)
>>> >
>>> > Except perhaps number 10 (LINK BONES and their respective keyframes) this
>>> > one might be a bit too much (but would be very usefull though) for a simple
>>> > patch.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Would you prefer it if I make a new mail for every issue I have ,or is
>>> > bundling them like that okay?
>>> > Should I wait a bit before posting new ones? Or can I post them whenever?
>>> > I don't want to exageratewith lots of posts, but  I'm just very passionate
>>> > about user comfort in programs. (and Blender is the best one yet ,but could
>>> > be even better!)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Kind regards
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Steven
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:36:09 +1100
>>> > > From: ideasman42 at gmail.com
>>> > > To: bf-funboard at blender.org
>>> > > Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] general comments and funcionality improvement
>>> >      suggestions
>>> > >
>>> > > > 1. looking out of the camera ,from which I animate, if I try to rotate
>>> > the view, going OUT of said camera mode,I always get a violent snap back to
>>> > the camera,regardless of where I was zooming with the camera. While I know
>>> > this is logical behaviour,it is not functional behaviour. While animating
>>> > one zooms ,rotates, and moves on the fly while adjusting bones and objects.
>>> > The snapback I experience makes me have to re-frame and re-zoom back to
>>> > where I was everytime.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > There IS the lock camera to view mode, which has good functionality
>>> > but it actually moves the camera ,and at this point in the animation,I
>>> > actually DONT want the camera to move.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > To recap,when I am in camera view mode,i just want the viewport to
>>> > behave like a viewport and not snap back everyime.
>>> > >
>>> > > Hi. I read this a couple of times but cant follow it - you dont want
>>> > > the camera to move but also dont want 'snap back' -
>>> > > could you explain in detail how you think it could work better?
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Bf-funboard mailing list
>>> > > Bf-funboard at blender.org
>>> > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>>> >
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>>> >
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> - Campbell



-- 
- Campbell


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