[Bf-funboard] Bf-funboard Digest, Vol 58, Issue 1
Willem Verwey
willem at 3danim8.net
Thu Jun 4 07:47:25 CEST 2009
Hi all. Thanks for the nice document you guys worked on.
Blender is the best. Like they say the best things in life is free.
Lighting up the geometry that will be selected will be a great addition.
Think that it would make blender even faster.
Why do you want to assign keys? Practically everything in blender already
has shortcuts. So that would be a bit difficult. However think it might be
something to be considered. The problem you might find is that it might
clash with a already existing shortcut.
Cheers
Willem Verwey
For 3D Animation Network
+27 74 192 9252
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Today's Topics:
1. Thoughts on multi-select mode. (Pawe? ?yczkowski)
2. Lighting up what is about to be selected (Pawe? ?yczkowski)
3. Re: Lighting up what is about to be selected (JimmyVolatile)
4. Re: Thoughts on multi-select mode. (joe)
5. Re: Thoughts on multi-select mode. (Pawe? ?yczkowski)
6. Re: Thoughts on multi-select mode. (joe)
7. Re: Thoughts on multi-select mode. (Alberto Torres)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:41:18 +0200
From: Pawe? ?yczkowski <plyczkowski at o2.pl>
Subject: [Bf-funboard] Thoughts on multi-select mode.
To: <bf-funboard at blender.org>
Message-ID: <6A46CFFA352D440EA2A430820477893D at wert>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2";
reply-type=original
Hi all, I love Blender!
tl;dr - Could selecting an element in multi select mode DID NOT select it's
parts? Eg. select an edge and it's vertices remain unselected?
Seems stupid? Let me explain why I think it's not.
I discovered recently that turning more than one select mode on is possible
(eg vertex + edge), and was thrilled by it, because it could make modelling
even faster in Blender. But I soon learned that it is not so, because of
some operations that seem not practical for me, here are examples:
- Selecting an edge with all modes on, pressing ctrl-e and choosing select
edge loop selects the edge loop properly. I thought that this command is
equivalent to alt-clicking an edge, but it is not so. Alt-clicking an edge
selects, well, a few edge loops i think - vertex, poly and ege loops? A lot
anyway, which is useless. I suppose that this command executes "select edge
loop" on each edge vertex and poly that is selected by clicking on the edge.
Could it be overridden to execute the command on the clicked edge only?
- Selecting two parallel edges from a side of a cube with all select modes
on selects also their vertices, which selects also the other two edges,
which selects the whole face. So when you select the two edges, and execute
"erase edges" - 4 edges are erased. Not practical, I can do that by clicking
on the face and choosing "erase edges", which is more intuitive.
This all is due to the way the multi select mode works now - selecting
element selects it's parts. But the multi select mode (or a new mode) could
be awesome if selecting element did not selects it's parts. It would be not
always logical, because you could select an edge, and then add one of its
end vertices to the selection, and for eg. "extrude" would be confused which
one to extrude, the vertice or the edge? An I suppose a lot of problems
would arise, but I think they would all be solvable.
But there would be a lot of benefits. You could for eg. select two edges in
a cube, erase them, then without changing the selection mode continue to
edit vertices.
Well, maybe it is a stupid idea, but I think that minimizing the need to
change the selection modes would be a good thing.
Cheers
Pawe? ?yczkowski
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:50:09 +0200
From: Pawe? ?yczkowski <plyczkowski at o2.pl>
Subject: [Bf-funboard] Lighting up what is about to be selected
To: <bf-funboard at blender.org>
Message-ID: <287FAEAD43B94C84B37ED828565E3E81 at wert>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2";
reply-type=original
Hi, me again
A great thing that could be in Blender would be a subtle lighting up what is
about to be selected, a vertice, edge or face, because sometimes clicking on
the right spot to select the desired element is quite difficult, and takes
some time to achive, especially in models with a dense mesh.
It is already used in Cinema 4D, and works fine.
Cheers
Pawe? ?yczkowski
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 18:27:17 +0200
From: JimmyVolatile <spam at useful.no>
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Lighting up what is about to be selected
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
<149965800906030927x7a3d7869h5d0380ef5faba494 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2
Agree.
This is one of the non-intrusive interaction feedback effects that would
make Blender feel quite a bit easier to master. Of course, the highlight
would have to be configurable and possibly limited to things like the afore
mentioned mesh elements - vertices, edges and faces etc to avoid CPU/GPU
overload in high-poly scenes.
In addition, selecting single mesh elements would be a lot more precise than
today where you often have to aim carefully, Shift+RMB-click, see that the
wrong vertice is selected, Ctrl+Z, aim, Shift+RMB-click again until
successful.
The vertex/edge/face hover-state would have to look different from the
selected state, though, to tell selected and hovered elements apart.
Regs,
Jimmy Volatile
2009/6/3 Pawe? ?yczkowski <plyczkowski at o2.pl>
> Hi, me again
>
> A great thing that could be in Blender would be a subtle lighting up what
> is
> about to be selected, a vertice, edge or face, because sometimes clicking
> on
> the right spot to select the desired element is quite difficult, and takes
> some time to achive, especially in models with a dense mesh.
>
> It is already used in Cinema 4D, and works fine.
>
> Cheers
> Pawe? ?yczkowski
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-funboard mailing list
> Bf-funboard at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>
--
Mvh
Jarl Arntzen >> +47 97082449 >> Skype: jarlarntzen
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 14:06:02 -0600
From: joe <joeedh at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Thoughts on multi-select mode.
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
<ca3ef29a0906031306m21db3c9epe5294b47504cca20 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2
Our selection system is based on flushing, e.g. if you select an edge
it selects the verts, and if you select all the edges of a face, that
face is selected, etc.
To change this would require quite a bit of thinking, especially of
what this would mean for the tools code.
Multiselect mode can be a pain for this reason, but removing flushing
from it would be too big of a change, I think, especially since users
expect the flushing, and we'd probably have to remove it from all
selection modes. Still, if you can think of a nice way to handle
this, we always appreciate feedback. :)
Joe
2009/6/3 Pawe? ?yczkowski <plyczkowski at o2.pl>:
> Hi all, I love Blender!
>
> tl;dr - Could selecting an element in multi select mode DID NOT select
it's
> parts? Eg. select an edge and it's vertices remain unselected?
>
> Seems stupid? Let me explain why I think it's not.
>
> I discovered recently that turning more than one select mode on is
possible
> (eg vertex + edge), and was thrilled by it, because it could make
modelling
> even faster in Blender. But I soon learned that it is not so, because of
> some operations that seem not practical for me, here are examples:
>
> - Selecting an edge with all modes on, pressing ctrl-e and choosing select
> edge loop selects the edge loop properly. I thought that this command is
> equivalent to alt-clicking an edge, but it is not so. Alt-clicking an edge
> selects, well, a few edge loops i think - vertex, poly and ege loops? A
lot
> anyway, which is useless. I suppose that this command executes "select
edge
> loop" on each edge vertex and poly that is selected by clicking on the
edge.
> Could it be overridden to execute the command on the clicked edge only?
>
> - Selecting two parallel edges from a side of a cube with all select modes
> on selects also their vertices, which selects also the other two edges,
> which selects the whole face. So when you select the two edges, and
execute
> "erase edges" - 4 edges are erased. Not practical, I can do that by
clicking
> on the face and choosing "erase edges", which is more intuitive.
>
> This all is due to the way the multi select mode works now - selecting
> element selects it's parts. But the multi select mode (or a new mode)
could
> be awesome if selecting element did not selects it's parts. It would be
not
> always logical, because you could select an edge, and then add one of its
> end vertices to the selection, and for eg. "extrude" would be confused
which
> one to extrude, the vertice or the edge? An I suppose a lot of problems
> would arise, but I think they would all be solvable.
>
> But there would be a lot of benefits. You could for eg. select two edges
in
> a cube, erase them, then without changing the selection mode continue to
> edit vertices.
>
> Well, maybe it is a stupid idea, but I think that minimizing the need to
> change the selection modes would be a good thing.
>
> Cheers
> Pawe? ?yczkowski
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-funboard mailing list
> Bf-funboard at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:57:57 +0200
From: Pawe? ?yczkowski <plyczkowski at o2.pl>
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Thoughts on multi-select mode.
To: <bf-funboard at blender.org>
Message-ID: <664065D93DD04F0B8A6B049E9BA94964 at wert>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2";
reply-type=original
"Still, if you can think of a nice way to handle
this, we always appreciate feedback. :)"
:)))
Yeah, i thought that changing anything in the existing selection system
would be very troublesome. One way to avoid this would be to make a separate
multiselect mode, not based on flushing, but I suppose that would be
confusing.
But I still think that overriding several selection behaviors in multiselect
would be a good thing, such as the alt-click on edge to select an edge loop.
Surely no one uses alt-click in multiselect anyway.
P.S Sorry to ask it here, but I couldn't find an answer - you can't assign
keys in Blender, right?
PLyczkowski
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe" <joeedh at gmail.com>
To: <bf-funboard at blender.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Thoughts on multi-select mode.
Our selection system is based on flushing, e.g. if you select an edge
it selects the verts, and if you select all the edges of a face, that
face is selected, etc.
To change this would require quite a bit of thinking, especially of
what this would mean for the tools code.
Multiselect mode can be a pain for this reason, but removing flushing
from it would be too big of a change, I think, especially since users
expect the flushing, and we'd probably have to remove it from all
selection modes. Still, if you can think of a nice way to handle
this, we always appreciate feedback. :)
Joe
2009/6/3 Pawe? ?yczkowski <plyczkowski at o2.pl>:
> Hi all, I love Blender!
>
> tl;dr - Could selecting an element in multi select mode DID NOT select
> it's
> parts? Eg. select an edge and it's vertices remain unselected?
>
> Seems stupid? Let me explain why I think it's not.
>
> I discovered recently that turning more than one select mode on is
> possible
> (eg vertex + edge), and was thrilled by it, because it could make
> modelling
> even faster in Blender. But I soon learned that it is not so, because of
> some operations that seem not practical for me, here are examples:
>
> - Selecting an edge with all modes on, pressing ctrl-e and choosing select
> edge loop selects the edge loop properly. I thought that this command is
> equivalent to alt-clicking an edge, but it is not so. Alt-clicking an edge
> selects, well, a few edge loops i think - vertex, poly and ege loops? A
> lot
> anyway, which is useless. I suppose that this command executes "select
> edge
> loop" on each edge vertex and poly that is selected by clicking on the
> edge.
> Could it be overridden to execute the command on the clicked edge only?
>
> - Selecting two parallel edges from a side of a cube with all select modes
> on selects also their vertices, which selects also the other two edges,
> which selects the whole face. So when you select the two edges, and
> execute
> "erase edges" - 4 edges are erased. Not practical, I can do that by
> clicking
> on the face and choosing "erase edges", which is more intuitive.
>
> This all is due to the way the multi select mode works now - selecting
> element selects it's parts. But the multi select mode (or a new mode)
> could
> be awesome if selecting element did not selects it's parts. It would be
> not
> always logical, because you could select an edge, and then add one of its
> end vertices to the selection, and for eg. "extrude" would be confused
> which
> one to extrude, the vertice or the edge? An I suppose a lot of problems
> would arise, but I think they would all be solvable.
>
> But there would be a lot of benefits. You could for eg. select two edges
> in
> a cube, erase them, then without changing the selection mode continue to
> edit vertices.
>
> Well, maybe it is a stupid idea, but I think that minimizing the need to
> change the selection modes would be a good thing.
>
> Cheers
> Pawe? ?yczkowski
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-funboard mailing list
> Bf-funboard at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:29:55 -0600
From: joe <joeedh at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Thoughts on multi-select mode.
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
<ca3ef29a0906031629l401b9b48hf0ac7dddd7d45b21 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2
Assigning keymaps is part of the 2.5 project, so you can't do it in 2.49, no
:)
I'll have to look at what the alt key does in multiselect mode,
shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
Joe
2009/6/3 Pawe? ?yczkowski <plyczkowski at o2.pl>:
> "Still, if you can think of a nice way to handle
> this, we always appreciate feedback. :)"
>
> :)))
>
> Yeah, i thought that changing anything in the existing selection system
> would be very troublesome. One way to avoid this would be to make a
separate
> multiselect mode, not based on flushing, but I suppose that would be
> confusing.
>
> But I still think that overriding several selection behaviors in
multiselect
> would be a good thing, such as the alt-click on edge to select an edge
loop.
> Surely no one uses alt-click in multiselect anyway.
>
> P.S Sorry to ask it here, but I couldn't find an answer - you can't assign
> keys in Blender, right?
>
> PLyczkowski
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "joe" <joeedh at gmail.com>
> To: <bf-funboard at blender.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Thoughts on multi-select mode.
>
>
> Our selection system is based on flushing, e.g. if you select an edge
> it selects the verts, and if you select all the edges of a face, that
> face is selected, etc.
>
> To change this would require quite a bit of thinking, especially of
> what this would mean for the tools code.
>
> Multiselect mode can be a pain for this reason, but removing flushing
> from it would be too big of a change, I think, especially since users
> expect the flushing, and we'd probably have to remove it from all
> selection modes. ?Still, if you can think of a nice way to handle
> this, we always appreciate feedback. :)
>
> Joe
>
> 2009/6/3 Pawe? ?yczkowski <plyczkowski at o2.pl>:
>> Hi all, I love Blender!
>>
>> tl;dr - Could selecting an element in multi select mode DID NOT select
>> it's
>> parts? Eg. select an edge and it's vertices remain unselected?
>>
>> Seems stupid? Let me explain why I think it's not.
>>
>> I discovered recently that turning more than one select mode on is
>> possible
>> (eg vertex + edge), and was thrilled by it, because it could make
>> modelling
>> even faster in Blender. But I soon learned that it is not so, because of
>> some operations that seem not practical for me, here are examples:
>>
>> - Selecting an edge with all modes on, pressing ctrl-e and choosing
select
>> edge loop selects the edge loop properly. I thought that this command is
>> equivalent to alt-clicking an edge, but it is not so. Alt-clicking an
edge
>> selects, well, a few edge loops i think - vertex, poly and ege loops? A
>> lot
>> anyway, which is useless. I suppose that this command executes "select
>> edge
>> loop" on each edge vertex and poly that is selected by clicking on the
>> edge.
>> Could it be overridden to execute the command on the clicked edge only?
>>
>> - Selecting two parallel edges from a side of a cube with all select
modes
>> on selects also their vertices, which selects also the other two edges,
>> which selects the whole face. So when you select the two edges, and
>> execute
>> "erase edges" - 4 edges are erased. Not practical, I can do that by
>> clicking
>> on the face and choosing "erase edges", which is more intuitive.
>>
>> This all is due to the way the multi select mode works now - selecting
>> element selects it's parts. But the multi select mode (or a new mode)
>> could
>> be awesome if selecting element did not selects it's parts. It would be
>> not
>> always logical, because you could select an edge, and then add one of its
>> end vertices to the selection, and for eg. "extrude" would be confused
>> which
>> one to extrude, the vertice or the edge? An I suppose a lot of problems
>> would arise, but I think they would all be solvable.
>>
>> But there would be a lot of benefits. You could for eg. select two edges
>> in
>> a cube, erase them, then without changing the selection mode continue to
>> edit vertices.
>>
>> Well, maybe it is a stupid idea, but I think that minimizing the need to
>> change the selection modes would be a good thing.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Pawe? ?yczkowski
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bf-funboard mailing list
>> Bf-funboard at blender.org
>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-funboard mailing list
> Bf-funboard at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 02:20:06 +0200
From: Alberto Torres <kungfoobar at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Thoughts on multi-select mode.
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
<bf7d15e10906031720v90931e5qa2732a44542202e8 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2
2009/6/4 Pawe? ?yczkowski <plyczkowski at o2.pl>:
>
> But I still think that overriding several selection behaviors in
multiselect
> would be a good thing, such as the alt-click on edge to select an edge
loop.
> Surely no one uses alt-click in multiselect anyway.
>
If I did understand, I use that all the time. I always enable
vertex+edge select and use alt+rmb and shift+alt+rmb to select edge
loops. I only set it to vertex only when using B, BB or ctrl+lmb. In
fact that's my biggest complain: I would like to have a way to use
B/BB/C-rmb for verts only while having vert+edge mode enabled. Being
able to change the selection mode to verts+edges with the keyboard
would alleviate the problem though.
I somewhat agree with Pawel in that it would be nice if I press X
while having only edges or faces selected, the default option would be
to erase those faces or edges. I'm used to the current behaviour
anyway (except for the issue I mentioned in the previous paragraph).
------------------------------
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