[Bf-funboard] OpenML and NLE
Timothy Baldridge
bf-funboard@blender.org
Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:29:56 -0500
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I like the idea. I may start extracting all the GUI code =
sometime in=20
the next few months, and start looking into the NLE app. Does anyone=20
know how modularized the code is? When basically I could just remove=20
all the unneeded 3D stuff and use the leftover code as a base for the=20
new app? I haven't looked into that part of the blender code much.
tbaldridge
On Friday, April 16, 2004, at 10:41 AM, The Fallen Weeble wrote:
> This is just my opinion, but just like building CAD tools directly =
into
> Blender was/is a bad idea, this is also a bad idea. The sequencer is
> just that: a sequencer. Let Blender be good at one thing. Now, using
> Blender as a base to start a project to make an NLE isn't such a bad
> idea... or writing plugins and extentions (a la BlenderCAD) to the
> vanilla Blender isn't a bad idea. But having this functionality added
> by default is not going to help things... it's outside the scope of=20
> what
> Blender is: a good, small 3D app.
>
> Regarding Cinelerra, it does admittedly have some issues. However,=20
> it's
> improved quite a bit in the last year or so (the interface still needs=20=
> a
> lot of help) with the help of a secondary development team in the
> community patching and adding to the app outside of the main branch
> (like the tuhopuu/bf-blender relationship). They actually take it =
upon
> themselves to automakify each release that heroines puts out and merge
> it with their cvs version. These developers are actually big admirers
> of Blender and there have been rumblings of handling their version of
> the interface in a manner similar to Blender (OpenGL and what-not), =
but
> the task is HUGE and the likelihood of merging it with main branch=20
> isn't
> that great, so no one has attempted to tackle it yet.
> Check out their website at http://cvs.cinelerra.org, it's good stuff.
>
> In a nutshell, though, I think that while having full-blown NLE
> functionality in Blender might be nice, it's definitely outside of the
> scope of the app. Extending it separately or using it as a base for a
> separate NLE project would probably be a better idea... and Blender =
and
> this yet to be created NLE app will be better because of it.
>
> Of course, that's just my opinion.
>
> Later.
>
> Fweeb
>
> On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:13:02 -0500 Timothy Baldridge
> <tbaldridge@alertacademy.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes I have. However, there are some issues I have with Jahshaka.
>> At
>> least at the current time.
>>
>> 1. It is mainly a special effects program
>> 2. No support for FireWire etc.
>> 3. The lack of more advanced features found in FCP. For instance,
>> the ability to edit in low resolution (e.g. 320x240). But at
>> export/encoding time, the complete recapture of all video data at =
full
>>
>> resolution. Something like this is used extensively in the film
>> industry. Because it allows the producers of a program to edit on a
>> low power computer (like a laptop), and then export the final product
>> on the main machine. An example of this is the TV show "Scrubs", =
which
>>
>> uses FCP for this task.
>>
>> tbaldridge
>>
>>
>> On Friday, April 16, 2004, at 08:30 AM, Jiri=AD Hnidek wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> have you ever heard about Jahshaka?:
>>>
>>> http://www.jahshaka.org
>>> http://www.jahshaka.com
>>>
>>> It is Open Source real time non-linear video editing tool. It has
>>> support of OpenML, OpenGL and GPGPU. It is similar a little to Smoke
>>>
>>> or Fire programs from Discreet.
>>>
>>> Jiri
>>>
>>>
>>>> I know this has been touched on in the past, but I thought I'd
>>>> cover this one more time and see what everyone thought.
>>>> The open source community is in need of a free NLE video
>>> program. > Looking at blender it has many of the features needed to
>>> be used as a > base for a program like Final Cut Pro, or Avid. I =
work
>>> with FCP on a > regular basis, so here is what I think would need to
>>> be done to the > sequencer to bring it up to speed.
>>>> (1) Better real-time support (it is slow compared to FCP)
>>>> (2) make it read all data from the HD instead of hogging memory via
>>>
>>>> caching
>>>> (3) Rethink the timeline. Each clip should be able to be trimmed,
>>> and > the user should be able to set IN/OUT points for each clip, in
>>>> addition to Blender storing information on what reel the tape came
>>>> from, the time-code, etc.
>>>> (4) Better effects engine, and integration with the timeline.
>>>> Basically this would allow effects to be on the same line as the
>>> clip > they are modifying.
>>>> (5) Vector-scopes, Waveform viewers, etc.
>>>> All the basic functionality is all ready in blender. the GUI,
>>> the > File support, and the basic timeline. It just needs to be
>>> extended. > Admittedly, Firewire would need to be added, but if we
>>> were to > integrate OpenML in Blender, it would allow us to not only
>>> to be > platform independent, but the entire video engine could then
>>> be > transparently hardware accelerated, as in OpenGL.
>>>> I know this would mean expanding what blender's role in the
>>> past > has been. However, the market would also expand.
>>>> Some may be thinking why we just don't create a fork. Well,
>>> this > could be done, but it would probably end up splitting the
>>> development > community up, as well, as make things like GUI changes
>>> harder. We > don't want another Gimp/CinePaint type war (for those
>>> who know what I > mean).
>>>> Anyway, any ideas are welcome!
>>>> tbaldridge
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bf-funboard mailing list
>>> Bf-funboard@blender.org
>>> http://www.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-funboard mailing list
> Bf-funboard@blender.org
> http://www.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
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I like the idea. I may start extracting all the GUI code =
sometime in
the next few months, and start looking into the NLE app. Does anyone
know how modularized the code is? When basically I could just remove
all the unneeded 3D stuff and use the leftover code as a base for the
new app? I haven't looked into that part of the blender code much.
tbaldridge
On Friday, April 16, 2004, at 10:41 AM, The Fallen Weeble wrote:
<excerpt>This is just my opinion, but just like building CAD tools
directly into
Blender was/is a bad idea, this is also a bad idea. The sequencer is
just that: a sequencer. Let Blender be good at one thing. Now, using
Blender as a base to start a project to make an NLE isn't such a bad
idea... or writing plugins and extentions (a la BlenderCAD) to the
vanilla Blender isn't a bad idea. But having this functionality added
by default is not going to help things... it's outside the scope of
what
Blender is: a good, small 3D app.
Regarding Cinelerra, it does admittedly have some issues. However,
it's
improved quite a bit in the last year or so (the interface still needs a
lot of help) with the help of a secondary development team in the
community patching and adding to the app outside of the main branch
(like the tuhopuu/bf-blender relationship). They actually take it upon
themselves to automakify each release that heroines puts out and merge
it with their cvs version. These developers are actually big admirers
of Blender and there have been rumblings of handling their version of
the interface in a manner similar to Blender (OpenGL and what-not), but
the task is HUGE and the likelihood of merging it with main branch
isn't
that great, so no one has attempted to tackle it yet.=20
Check out their website at http://cvs.cinelerra.org, it's good stuff.
In a nutshell, though, I think that while having full-blown NLE
functionality in Blender might be nice, it's definitely outside of the
scope of the app. Extending it separately or using it as a base for a
separate NLE project would probably be a better idea... and Blender and
this yet to be created NLE app will be better because of it.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
Later.
Fweeb
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:13:02 -0500 Timothy Baldridge
<<tbaldridge@alertacademy.com> wrote:
<excerpt>
Yes I have. However, there are some issues I have with Jahshaka.
At=20
least at the current time.
1. It is mainly a special effects program
2. No support for FireWire etc.
3. The lack of more advanced features found in FCP. For instance,
the ability to edit in low resolution (e.g. 320x240). But at=20
export/encoding time, the complete recapture of all video data at full
resolution. Something like this is used extensively in the film=20
industry. Because it allows the producers of a program to edit on a
low power computer (like a laptop), and then export the final product
on the main machine. An example of this is the TV show "Scrubs", which
uses FCP for this task.
tbaldridge
On Friday, April 16, 2004, at 08:30 AM,
Jiri<fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param>=AD Hnidek wrote:
<excerpt>Hi,
have you ever heard about Jahshaka?:
http://www.jahshaka.org
http://www.jahshaka.com
It is Open Source real time non-linear video editing tool. It has=20
support of OpenML, OpenGL and GPGPU. It is similar a little to Smoke
or Fire programs from Discreet.
Jiri
<excerpt> I know this has been touched on in the past, but I
thought I'd=20
cover this one more time and see what everyone thought.
The open source community is in need of a free NLE video
</excerpt>program. > Looking at blender it has many of the features
needed to
be used as a > base for a program like Final Cut Pro, or Avid. I work
with FCP on a > regular basis, so here is what I think would need to
be done to the > sequencer to bring it up to speed.
<excerpt>(1) Better real-time support (it is slow compared to FCP)
(2) make it read all data from the HD instead of hogging memory via
</excerpt>
<excerpt>caching
(3) Rethink the timeline. Each clip should be able to be trimmed,
</excerpt>and > the user should be able to set IN/OUT points for each
clip, in=20
<excerpt>addition to Blender storing information on what reel the tape
came=20
from, the time-code, etc.
(4) Better effects engine, and integration with the timeline.=20
Basically this would allow effects to be on the same line as the
</excerpt>clip > they are modifying.
<excerpt>(5) Vector-scopes, Waveform viewers, etc.
All the basic functionality is all ready in blender. the GUI,
</excerpt>the > File support, and the basic timeline. It just needs to
be
extended. > Admittedly, Firewire would need to be added, but if we
were to > integrate OpenML in Blender, it would allow us to not only
to be > platform independent, but the entire video engine could then
be > transparently hardware accelerated, as in OpenGL.
<excerpt> I know this would mean expanding what blender's role in
the
</excerpt>past > has been. However, the market would also expand.
<excerpt> Some may be thinking why we just don't create a fork.
Well,
</excerpt>this > could be done, but it would probably end up splitting
the
development > community up, as well, as make things like GUI changes
harder. We > don't want another Gimp/CinePaint type war (for those
who know what I > mean).
<excerpt> Anyway, any ideas are welcome!
tbaldridge
</excerpt>_______________________________________________
Bf-funboard mailing list
Bf-funboard@blender.org
http://www.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
</excerpt>
</fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param>
_______________________________________________
Bf-funboard mailing list
Bf-funboard@blender.org
http://www.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
</fontfamily></excerpt>=
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