[Bf-funboard] Buttons organisation guidelines

Luke Wenke bf-funboard@blender.org
Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:13:07 +1000


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Ebb" <matt@mke3.net>
> Ton mentioned recently that (including menus) there are over 1700
different buttons
> in Blender.
Can that be put into a list? Maybe ton already has a list? It would take too
long for me to type it out manually and I might miss some things.

> There is also another distinction of buttons which are related
> to settings (like subsurf level) and which are related to actions or tools
> (like subdivide).
I guess they're kind of related, though one is easily reversible (subsurf).

> Generally, the settings will act on the entire ObData or
> Object (like a mesh), while the tools will act on a selection within that
> obData (like vertex).
Yeah...

> I'd include buttons like the remove doubles limit in the 'tools/actions'.
Yeah, it is the setting for a tool...

> Of course there are exceptions, but that seems to be to
> be the general logic. Communicating these differences through the
> positioning of the buttons will help to make the interface less random,
and
> more predictable (giving a feeling of being in control).
I agree. Plus options that aren't available (due to you not being in
editmode, or things like degrees when "Auto Smooth" is disabled) could be
grayed out. I don't think any of the options that are currently disabled in
editmode should be disabled. (e.g. deleting materials and adjusting the
cursor) Set Smooth, Set Solid and Auto Smooth actually work while in
editmode (they only affect select vertices rather than the entire mesh) but
you can't see the effects unless you press F12. Even when you're out of
editmode you can't see its effects [the effect of only smoothing some of the
faces] (it must be a bug). BTW, Auto Smooth, Set Smooth and Set Solid should
be next to each other....

> So my initial proposal. in grouping these buttons together:
> 1* Try to keep panels mode-specific. i.e: don't mix buttons that are
> dependent on different modes
But in object mode, you can use the edit buttons to create and delete new
materials... I think these buttons should still be right next to the other
edit button material buttons. As said earlier, the main way to distinguish
what works in a mode and what doesn't could be that things get greyed out.
And when you hover the mouse over them it could say that you need to be in
editmode (press tab) [you could tell the user the hotkey] and if you're
already in editmode, you could say what other reason it is disabled for. (At
first you could just tell them to go into editmode - by pressing tab). Or
when you're not in editmode maybe the editmode buttons could disappear...

> 2* Try to keep panels specific to either tools or settings
> We can come up with guidelines for organising these panels within the
> window, for example:
> * Panels containing settings go towards the left/bottom side, Panels
> containing Actions towards the right/top side
> (this is a bit similar to how the < 2.3 editbuttons are laid out)
Yeah it's similar.

> Another example for this could be in organising the Render buttons - The
> settings (that control settings in the Scene datablock) such as the output
> paths, file types, rendering effects) could be organised on the left,
while
> the actions such as Render, Anim, Play would fit nicely on the right side.
Sounds good.

> When it's not possible to cleanly separate buttons into different panels,
we
> can at least try to group things that way within the panel, so for example
> in the mesh vertex weighting groups, the buttons to set rename, creating
> new, delete vertex groups is a setting that acts on the mesh ObData, but
the
> buttons to assign or remove vertices to the vertex groups are tools that
act
> upon the current selected verts. So under this scheme, the group
> name/selector, 'New' and 'Delete' would be grouped together, while
'Select',
> 'Deselect', 'Weight: ', 'Assign' and 'Remove' would be grouped together.
I think select and deselect are the only things that don't directly modify
the settings (the vertex groups) 'Weight' is usually used to modify the
settings (via assign?), so it is a kind of a setting-related thing. As far
as the vertex group drop down list goes, I'm not sure whether it is an
action or a setting... I guess it depends what button it is used with.

> We can even come up with guidelines for how to do this, such as:
> * When panels must contain mixed settings and actions, organise the
actions
> at the top of the panel and settings at the bottom
So as far as the materials go (in the edit buttons), maybe "assign" should
at (or near) the top, just below the material index.... that way it is
easier to go through the materials and assign materials to the selected
faces. Or "select" and "deselect" could be just below the material indexes,
then "assign" could be below that - so that you're less likely to like
"assign" accidently. (select and deselect aren't that bad if you press them
by mistake) New and delete could be at the bottom. (And earlier you said
that new and delete are settings anyway...)

> :( In any case, without a nice structured design to base things on,
> quibbling over specific buttons will be futile in the long run, so this is
> something that needs to be adressed.
But I think quibbles on specific buttons should happen sometime, and
eventually that should lead to some changes in blender (if necessary).
- Luke.