[Bf-funboard] layers vs. groups, and "no render".

Roel Spruit bf-funboard@blender.org
Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:54:18 +0100


This may sound rather blunt, but....Why?
Don't make things overly complicated by renaming important parts in
Blender.

Roel


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: bf-funboard-admin@blender.org
[mailto:bf-funboard-admin@blender.org]Namens Luke Wenke
Verzonden: vrijdag 5 december 2003 7:51
Aan: bf-funboard@blender.org
Onderwerp: [Bf-funboard] layers vs. groups, and "no render".


Hi,
This is based on what Ton said about how objects in blender aren't really in
layers...

Since they can be in multiple "layers" at once, I think they should be
called "groups". (So those 20 icons at the bottom would be "group buttons")
The problem with that though is that there is already something in blender
called groups...
But I think it is more important to call those buttons "groups". I don't
think the term "layer" should be used at all. This would be replaced by the
word "group". So in the lamps buttons, instead of "layer only" it would be
"groups only"... so the lamp would light up every single group it is in.

This is my quick proposal for the group manager... (formerly "layer
manager")
===========================
1 # Background
  |__ FarHills
  |__ Clouds

2 # Outdoors
  |__ Hills
  |__ FarTrees
  |__ CloseTrees
  |__ House

3 # NearHouse
  |__ CloseTrees
  |__ House

4... etc... 20.
===========================
It could number them 1 to 20, or perhaps a better thing to do would be to
number them 1 to 0, then alt-1 to alt-0... when it is easy for people to
learn the hotkeys. (I suggest 1 to 0 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0] rather than 0 to
9 because on the keyboard it goes 1 to 0).
Notice that CloseTrees appears in both groups 2 and 3... in those previous
proposals I'm not sure if that would be able to happen.

Other suggested features:
- The ability to move, copy and delete objects using drag, ctrl-drag and
delete.
- Multiple objects or groups can be selected using shift-click or
ctrl-click.
- The ability to swap group numbers using context menus.

Also, you could have icons/colours/text next to the group names (and the 20
group buttons) which tell you about the visibility, whether the visibility
is locked, etc. This could be changed by right-clicking on the group-names
(or the little group icons).

The "m" command would probably need to be changed... I mean you don't really
"move" an object to different groups (or "layers") - particularly when an
object is allowed to be in any number of groups (as long as it is in at
least 1 group).
Ideally the hotkey would use a "g" in it (for "groups") I was thinking that
"m" could be the hotkey for "move/grab" and "g" be the hotkey for
"groups"... but unfortunately shift-m, ctrl-m and alt-m are a bit too
inconvenient...

If it stayed as "m" it could say "move to groups". (or it mention being a
"member" [of the groups] or group "membership").

As I think ton pointed out, if objects are in multiple groups though, it
isn't very clear whether some things will be rendered, etc.

Well it could be handled like this....
Currently if an object is in a few layers and at least one of the layers is
visible, then that object is visible.
A possibility could be that if at least one of the layers (groups) is set to
"no render" then the object isn't rendered - even if that "no render" layer
isn't visible. Or maybe the "no render" layer has to be visible to take
effect.

Well I guess the most straight-forward solution is to be able to set
individual objects so they don't render. I think it should be independent of
what layer/group it is in... so if you move an object to another
layer/group, its rendering state stays the same. To make it easy to manage
lots of objects as far as the rendering state goes, you could have a way of
setting the rendering state of all of the selected objects, and also a way
of selecting either all of the "no render" objects, or all of the "render"
objects. (You can use "invert selection" to select the opposite property)

- Luke.
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