<div>Hello,</div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(34,34,34)">In my opinion I would like to see a function or script to show when you changed some parameter "highlighted", similar to the Tony Mullen books. This could be a good way to follow a teacher.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(34,34,34)">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial;font-size:small">example:</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial;font-size:small"><br></div><a href="http://imgur.com/tgrcT" style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">http://imgur.com/tgrcT</a></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(34,34,34)">
Regards,</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(34,34,34)">
Erick Parra V.</div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/11/4 Nigel Ward <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nigel.ward@eeb3.be" target="_blank">nigel.ward@eeb3.be</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Calibri'">
<div>Hello all,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Nigel Ward from Brussels here. I only just joined this mailing list and may
have missed a couple of message that responded to my entirely unoriginal
suggestion that there should be a ‘beginner’s mode’ in Blender that hides most
of the more advanced, rarely used options. It’s clear though that this
suggestion is getting a negative response. </div>
<div> </div>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt" class="MsoNormal"><font style="FONT-SIZE:11pt">I would like to make the obvious comment that Blender,
like most programs, ALREADY includes the option of hiding options that are not
needed – we use those little triangles to hide lists of unwanted items all the
time. And every time we expand a window with Ctrl+up arrow it is because not
only do we want an expanded view but also because we want a cleaner, simpler
interface. Even the idea of drop-down menus is to hide commands most of the time
and show them only when needed. So in fact most options in Blender are hidden
anyway, at any given time. Once you’ve accepted that fact you should be more
willing to accept the idea of a beginner’s mode that hides most options.
</font></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt" class="MsoNormal"><font style="FONT-SIZE:11pt">Nicholas J suggests that ‘Using a simplified interface
just doubles the amount of time it takes to get comfortable’ and Carlos suggests
that a button that hides 80% of Blender’s complexity would ‘add another layer of
complexity’ and ‘increase confusion’. I find these comments strange - <span> </span>the whole point of a beginner’s mode is
to reduce complexity and confusion, of course. It shouldn’t take long for users
to realise that if they can’t find some option their first reflex should be to
click the prominent button that switches back to full mode. Identifying exactly
what should be shown and what should be hidden in beginner’s mode would be an
interesting and controversial exercise but at the same time it’s obvious that
some operations and options in Blender are far more basic than
others.</font></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt" class="MsoNormal"><font style="FONT-SIZE:11pt">I agree with John N who says Blender ‘has the complexity
of a dozen Photoshops!’ Blender is already the most complex free software I have
ever worked with and it will of course become ever more complex with each new
version. It therefore seem to me INEVITABLE that a beginner’s mode will have to
be introduced sooner or later for Blender will simply become too intimidating
otherwise. Already many of my students beg me after a few lessons of Blender
‘Can’t we go back to Sketchup, please – it’s so much simpler, easier and more
fun!’ I worry that if Sketchup ever adds built-in rendering then many people
will choose it rather than Blender. After all, it already has a physics engine
(game mode) in the form of the SketchyPhysics plugin.</font></p>
<div>
<div style="font-size:small;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';display:inline;font-weight:normal"><font face="Calibri"><font style="FONT-SIZE:11pt">Regarding the suggestion that
individuals would hack their version of Blender to create a customised,
simplified interface, there are many problems with this:</font></font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt"><span><span><font face="Symbol"><font style="FONT-SIZE:11pt">·</font></font><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE:7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><font face="Calibri"><font style="FONT-SIZE:11pt">Every time the hacker adopts a new version of Blender he
would need to repeat his work</font></font></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt"><span><span><font face="Symbol"><font style="FONT-SIZE:11pt">·</font></font><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE:7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><font face="Calibri"><font style="FONT-SIZE:11pt">Hundreds of hackers all over the planet might be doing
this hack – how inefficient that would be!</font></font></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt"><span><span><font face="Symbol"><font style="FONT-SIZE:11pt">·</font></font><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE:7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><b><font face="Calibri"><font style="FONT-SIZE:11pt">Above all, this would not give us a
STANDARD beginner’s configuration. Therefore no educator would ever make
tutorials using their custom interface. There must be a STANDARD beginner’s
interface option to encourage people to make tutorials for it. By all means also
give people the option of further customising their interface but I think the
most important thing is to have a STANDARD simplified interface
option.</font></font></b></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri"><font style="FONT-SIZE:11pt">Note also that I am not suggesting
that there should be a special ‘educational’ version of Blender with some
functions not available – there should be only one Blender but it should have
the built-in option of presenting a standard, simplified interface with most
controls hidden.</font></font></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri">Best regards,</font></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri">Nigel from Brussels</font></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 10pt" class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
<a title="njainsch@risd.edu" href="mailto:njainsch@risd.edu" target="_blank">Nicholas
Jainschigg</a> </p>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 04, 2012 5:35 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="bf-education@blender.org" href="mailto:bf-education@blender.org" target="_blank">Blender Educators and Trainers</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bf-education] Blender's great weakness.. and the
solution!</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="font-size:small;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';display:inline;font-weight:normal"><div><div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr">Hi--<br>I teach Blender at the college level and wanted to
contribute that while the old interface was slightly intimidating, the new one
has enough perfectly recognizable functions and tools directly visible that
students begin messing around with it before I've gotten two minutes into my
explanatory demonstration.<br><br>I should also add that while I teach Blender,
I'm not totally fluent with all of its features. The same goes for Photoshop,
Adobe Illustrator, ZBrush and several other packages I teach. In my experience
both as a user an teacher of software, it's far less important to know every
aspect of a package than it is to know its general capabilities and how to find
out what you need to know at the time you're using it. Software today isn't like
a language, where you can learn it and let it go at that. It's more like moving
into a new apartment, where you have to get comfortable with it and its quirks,
but you know you'll be moving in a few years and have to do it
again.<br><br>People learn software to get things done, not to learn how to push
all the buttons on it correctly. The quicker you get them to a stage where they
can do cool things and learn on their own how to do more, the better they'll
like it and the more they'll learn.<br><br>Using a simplified interface just
doubles the amount of time it takes to get comfortable, without really aiding in
acquiring the basic skills.<br>Best,<br>Nick J.<br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Carlos Santana <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:csantanad@gmail.com" target="_blank">csantanad@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">Also it would split tutorial base and add a layer of
complexity to handling documentation / wiki / instructional material, and
increase the confusion of people not aware of the feature and its meaning("is
blender lite another install?" and "please help cant find (UI hidden in lite)
button ! " noise).
<div> </div>
<div>Also you are saying hide physics and such? what if thats the reason i
want to start using blender in the first place cause i saw a gorgeous steam
train engine animation?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What if people only see the lite version of the ui and say, "Well this is
too basic for my company to use"?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>How will "your new steaming hot feature is going to be hidden to most
users" affect developers gumption?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Who decides which features goes to which side of the
watershed?<br><br>Should we hide node materials too? then what happens to
cycles?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Why not simply swap Lite for Mobile?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Have a Mobile only sub set that is a simplified version of the ui that
kicks in when in a corresponding platform is detected.<br><br>The best way to
tackle complexity is through documentation: effort in a lite version should be
redirected to the wiki, imho. <br><br>
<div>And who knows, maybe an add-on that would let devs link any interface
element to a wiki entry.<br><br>The point am trying to make is that
centralized information outlets are better than adapting to a user s level of
knowledge when it comes to the learning curve, The wiki has seen some terrific
amount of work and that is what should be supported when talking about helping
new comers.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Carlos Santana
<div>
<div><br><br>
<div>On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 11:08 AM, John R. Nyquist <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:john@nyquist.net" target="_blank">john@nyquist.net</a>></span>
wrote:
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">I would respectfully disagree with the idea of
implementing -- and teaching to -- a simplified version of Blender's UI.
I've tried that with other software that's had simple/advanced versions and
if you start on simple, the switch to advanced is jarring.
<div> </div>
<div>I prefer the approach of showing what you need to look for (initially).
I find people, and especially kids, very good at zeroing on those things
once they're shown (just as Nigel has done). The other elements that they
are not currently using -- while they may be visual noise/texture at the
beginning -- are there in their usual spot for when the learner starts
expanding their knowledge.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I've been approached more than once by new users who say something like
"I'm pretty good at Photoshop how long would it take to learn Blender?".
Blender might be one software program, but it has the complexity of a dozen
Photoshops! Modeling, texturing, rigging, animating, lighting, compositing,
rendering, video editing, game programming, and more. Each one of those is
very deep on its own. 3d in general is a very broad topic, each topic a
discipline of its own. Who knows what will peak the student's interests? I
look at young masters like Jonathan Williamson and Andrew Price, both are
great Blender artists (and instructors) but each excels in different areas
(Jonathan in modeling and Andrew in compositing). I'd be hesitant at hiding
functionality and encourage guiding. <br>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">The youngest person I ever taught blender to was my
8-year-old using the Blender 2.4x series (supposedly a more difficult UI
than today). In a short time, he was able to model a pretty good Garfield
(the cat) using mostly primitives, with some simple materials and textures.
I was surprised at how productive one can be with just the basics.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">On a funny personal note, just Friday I was handed a
very large manual for a real-world system. But the owner showed me the 10%
that was relavant 90% of the time. That little bit of guidance made all the
world in the difference. I may need the rest of the manual someday, but to
do what I need to do I know where to look. I feel like that is our job as
instructors. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Regards,</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">John</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">PS: My opinion does not let UI designers off the
hook. Continued refinement is important (and time-consuming to design!). I
think Blender has an amazing UI in its ability to be reconfigured (even
without getting into Python). </div><span><font color="#888888">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>-- <br>John R. Nyquist<br>Nyquist Art +
Logic<br>864-NYQ-UIST<br><a href="http://nyquist.net/" target="_blank">http://nyquist.net/</a><br><a href="http://astraitinera.com/" target="_blank">http://AstraItinera.com/</a></div></font></span>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 2:56 AM, Ton Roosendaal <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ton@blender.org" target="_blank">ton@blender.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">Hi Nigel,<br><br>Thanks for the suggestion. You actually
confirm what we know already for long, and it's a feature on our roadmap.
At the last Blender Conference I mentioned it in my keynote as one of the
targets for the coming year.<br><br>Now there are two ways
forward:<br><br>1) Join the educators list:<br><a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education</a><br>I
will CC this message to get feedback or help from other Blender educators.
(You have to subscribe to mail to the list).<br><br>Since all buttons in
Blender are defined via Python scripts - an average scripter can reduce
80% of the UI quite easily. The trick is to define what should go... but
it's a quick solution worth investigating.<br><br>2) The developer/final
solution<br><br>The main problem with the previous approach is that
changes in the code are hard to keep in sync. You basically just take an
existing version, and hack it for a training purpose. Obviously - for
beginner classes you don't need the latest of the latest always. Last
year's Blender was also awesome!<br><br>A better solution would be if we
can find a way to manage "Blender Configurations" more easily or automatic
even. A bit like how custom keymaps now work - these get synced with new
releases quite well. Such configurations could not only be needed for an
"Educational Blender" but will also be useful in studios for special
optimized UIs for game level makers, or character animators, name
it.<br><br>Related to that: on our old 2.5 todo is to enable horizontal
toolbars, also to be used as custom 'shelves' where you can drag tools
into. We should also allow bigger icons (32 pix or more) for tools, ways
to use own pictures for it, and good drag & drop support for such
tools. (Like: picture of monkey, drag in 3d window, adds a
monkey).<br><br>With all that, a trainer (or author of training material)
can make a config for UI tailored for special workshops or
classes.<br><br>-Ton-<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Ton
Roosendaal Blender Foundation <a href="mailto:ton@blender.org" target="_blank">ton@blender.org</a> <a href="http://www.blender.org" target="_blank">www.blender.org</a><br>Blender
Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam
The Netherlands<br><br>On 3 Nov, 2012, at 22:50, Nigel Ward
wrote:<br><br>> Hello<br>><br>> You’re a busy man, I imagine, so
I’ll keep this short..<br>><br>> I’m a teacher of ICT at European
School 3, Brussels. I teach Blender to pupils aged 13-16 and tell them
this is simply the very best, most sophisticated and most fun free
software on the planet. The most fun? Well, with sophistication comes the
challenge of achieving a level of competence beyond which the rewards
overcome the frustration of being lost in the thousands of options that
Blender offers. In my opinion this complexity is by far Blender’s greatest
weakness (you would call it Blender’s greatest strength, of course). I
know that in reality my pupils will only be able to work with Blender for
a few hours in my school – enough for them to glimpse the potential of the
program and for one or two to want to take it up as a hobby, while the
rest experience more frustration than anything else.<br>><br>> I’M
WRITING TO PROPOSE THE SOLUTION! If there was ever a program that should
offer the option of switching into a ‘beginner’s mode’ in which most of
the options would be simply hidden then Blender is that program. I propose
that Blender should have a ‘beginner’s mode’ button or menu item which,
when clicked, would hide say 75% of the controls in Blender. For example,
no scene, particles or physics panels, no weight paint mode or vertex
paint mode etc etc. I’ve been using Blender for more than a hundred hours
and 80% of Blender’s controls have so far just been ‘noise’ for me – I
would far prefer the option of having a simplified interface where the
basic controls are ‘in my face’ and where I’m less likely to make
accidental changes by changing some setting that I don’t yet understand.
Since all I am proposing is the hiding of certain options the programming
effort to make the change would be limited. Choosing which options should
be hidden would not be too difficult – I’d be happy to make detailed
suggestions.<br>><br>> Thanks for taking the time to read this
message and for leading such an amazing project as
Blender.<br>><br>> Nigel
Ward<br>><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bf-education
mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Bf-education@blender.org" target="_blank">Bf-education@blender.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all">
<div> </div></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bf-education
mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Bf-education@blender.org" target="_blank">Bf-education@blender.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div>
<div> </div></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bf-education
mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Bf-education@blender.org" target="_blank">Bf-education@blender.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div>
<div> </div></div>
</div></div><p>
</p><hr><div class="im">
_______________________________________________<br>Bf-education mailing
list<br><a href="mailto:Bf-education@blender.org" target="_blank">Bf-education@blender.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education</a><br>
</div><p></p></div></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Bf-education mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Bf-education@blender.org">Bf-education@blender.org</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br>