<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div>I completely understand your point. There are 2 possible approaches:<br><br></div>1. Hey, let's do this. Whoever can do anything, just go for it.<br></div>2. Let's apply Project Management techniques to get it done.<br><br></div>Option 1 is what it has been around for years and years.<br><br></div>Option 2 is all about breaking down the job into tasks and assign deadlines to those. If you have the necessary degree of commitment, perhaps you won't meet the deadline, but you'll end up doing the task. If you don't have a deadline and don't have that degree of commitment, you will do the task tomorrow. And tomorrow never comes. So it's not about deadlines. It's about commitment.<br><br>And as I have already said, you have to help people feel commited. Assigning tasks and building a real team definitely adds that commitment.<br><br></div><div>Regarding decisions, if you realize, there are still conversations about what should the manual be, what structure should have. After how many years? You don't think that a formal decision-making process should be established?<br><br></div>However, I could be wrong, of course.<br><br></div>Regards,<br><br>Pep.<br><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-01-25 20:00 GMT+08:00 Gaia <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gaia.clary@machinimatrix.org" target="_blank">gaia.clary@machinimatrix.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><tt>#################<br>
3 Questions</tt><tt>...<br>
</tt><tt>#################<br>
</tt><tt><br>
come into my mind every time</tt><tt> when i work on the manual
pages:</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>- Who is the intended audience?</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>- What is the anticipated content?</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
</tt><tt>- How is the manual meant to be used?</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>Here is what i believe (please correct me if i am wrong):</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>- intended audience: Everybody who USES Blender</tt><tt>
as a tool.</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>- anticipated content: Everything that is need to USE
Blender</tt><tt>.<br>
</tt><tt>- document usage: can't tell in general (but see below)</tt><tt>.<br>
</tt><tt><br>
############################<br>
How our Addon Users do it<br>
############################<br>
</tt><tt><br>
Now here is how the users of our own (third party-)
Blender-Addon<br>
typically behave:</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>1.) user does experiments (without reading the docs)</tt><tt>.<br>
</tt><tt>2.) user has an issue.</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>3.) user tries to solve that particular issue</tt><tt>.<br>
</tt><tt>4.) user continues at 1.</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>user can be an expert or a noob, the questions are
different, </tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>the approach to find a solution for a particular issue
seems similar:</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>- Google solution</tt><tt>.<br>
- Watch youtube videos.<br>
</tt><tt>- Ask in chat and or forums</tt><tt>.<br>
</tt><tt>- Use blender.stackexchange (recently became very
popular)</tt><tt>.<br>
</tt><tt>- Look at the blender manual (seems unpopular).</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
<br>
####################################<br>
</tt><tt> My personal goal and wishlist ...<br>
####################################<br>
<br>
I personally would like to see the documentation getting<br>
more useful (more reliable, more up to date) and thus <br>
also more popular. This would help us to reduce the <br>
tremendous amount of questions (in our community) <br>
about the (basic) usage of Blender. <br>
<br>
For the documentation my wishlist is:</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>- Can be searched by keywords</tt><tt>.<br>
</tt><tt>- Can be browsed</tt><tt> with few clicks</tt><tt>.<br>
</tt><tt>- Can be understood by artists</tt><tt>.<br>
</tt><tt>- Is complete but also br</tt><tt>ief</tt><tt> (no walls
of text)</tt><tt>.<br>
</tt><tt>
- Is referenced from Blender itself (RMB -> Onlinemanual)</tt><tt>.<br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>I personally do not care if this is called Manual or
Reference.</tt><tt><br>
However i am a big fan of easy to use and concise documentation.<br>
Hence i try to write with that in mind :)<br>
<br>
#############################<br>
The documentation Team ...<br>
#############################<br>
<br>
Honestly i believe that what is needed is people who<br>
do the documentation and not so much people who make <br>
decisions, assignments and deadlines.<br>
<br>
I personally would bail out immediately when someone <br>
told me to improve a particular document and deliver <br>
withing 2 weeks. <br><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<br>
-gaia-<br>
</font></span></tt><div><div class="h5"><br>
On 25.01.2015 11:44, Pep Ribal wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>I explained my view on the subject a few days
ago. To summarize:<br>
<br>
</div>
-There should be both a manual AND a reference.<br>
</div>
-Manual sections should be pretty much the same
there are now (modeling, rendering, rigging,
animation,...)<br>
</div>
-Reference sections should be broken, into editors.<br>
</div>
-Manual can then link to information in the reference.<br>
</div>
-The current "editors" section in the manual doesn't make
any sense, as this is exactly the Blender reference.<br>
<br>
</div>
I emphasize the need to set up a team asap, and start
meetings and decisions, assignments and deadlines.
Otherwise, I feel the blender documentation discussion as a
chronic incurable disease.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I'm not just pointing out what you should do. I'm also
offering my help in whatever you need.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Regards.<br>
<br>
</div>
Pep.<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2015-01-25 4:03 GMT+08:00 Wim
Teuling <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wfteuling@yahoo.com" target="_blank">wfteuling@yahoo.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div>A reference manual is a great idea: every
other manual I read or worked with is
exactly that: a place to quickly find
information how to use a particular tool. No
fluff, and focused. Once users know the
terminology and basic usage principles, this
should enable them to look for tutorials.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> A reference manual, however, requires an
solid and robust structure, and should offer
a good search function. This is currently
not the case with Blender's manual, or at
least only partly true, unfortunately.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">A basic search for "selection",
or "selection methods" results in a useless
search result. Trying to find "selection" as
a category in the current manual structure
yields nothing! I would expect that to be
part of "Basics" under "Getting Started".</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div><span></span></div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"> On Saturday, January
24, 2015 5:20 AM, Greg Zaal <<a href="mailto:gregzzmail@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregzzmail@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote> <br>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>I'd agree - a
reference manual seems
like a much more
easily reached target.
I myself would prefer
to have a good
reference available
than a guided manual.<br>
<br>
</div>
It would definitely make
maintenance simpler, and
would be easier to write
since it requires less
teaching and language
skills than a guided
manual.<br>
<br>
</div>
If people still wish to
write tutorials and
in-depth examples, these
can be done elsewhere
(personal wiki pages,
forums, blogs, etc) and
linked to from the manual.
This is already done
occasionally, for example
the array modifier (<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://blender.org/manual/modifiers/generate/array.html#tutorials</a>)
links to some external
resources.<br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>On 24 January 2015
at 08:56, Campbell
Barton <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">ideasman42@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>It was
suggested by
@el_diablo that we
might consider
restricting the<br>
manual to being a
reference manual.<br>
<br>
see:<br>
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?360263-Blender-User-Manual-Official-Call-for-Help!&p=2803818&viewfull=1#post2803818</a><br>
<br>
This doesn't mean we
have to make this
simply lists of
button<br>
descriptions, we
should still make
this text for users
and give some<br>
guidance (usage info
and tips).<br>
<br>
Examples of pages
I'd consider
reasonable for a
'reference manual'<br>
<br>
- <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">https://www.blender.org/manual/modeling/meshes/editing/subdividing/knife_subdivide.html</a><br>
- <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">https://www.blender.org/manual/modifiers/generate/solidify.html</a><br>
- <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">https://www.blender.org/manual/getting_started/basics/interface/buttons_and_controls.html</a><br>
<br>
This means we
wouldn't attempt
anything like
tutorials or
howto's.<br>
<br>
The main reasons I
suggest this is...<br>
<br>
- So far we only
have a small group
of active writers.<br>
- This is what the
manual is for the
mostpart anyway.<br>
- The few tutorials
from the wiki were
OK (at best),<br>
... Youtube,
blender.stackexchange
& dedicated
tutorial sites are
far<br>
better suited to
helping users with
spesific interests.<br>
- This is something
developers can keep
up tp date when
functionality<br>
is changed, without
giving us pages of
text to maintain.<br>
<span><br>
--<br>
- Campbell<br>
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