Hi Jared,<br><br>I like the new wiki colors too. One problem I often encountered as a laptop user is that shortcuts frequently require the number pad. Eg. <br><br>"The <i>active</i> camera is the camera that is currently used for rendering and camera view (<span class="hotkeybg"><span class="hotkey">0 NumPad</span></span>)."<br>
<br>It would be a nice feature if on-mouse-over of the keypad gifs there was a "help" option that would take you either to a page explaining keyboard emulation, or describing how to use the new spacebar feature in the 3d viewport to find the gui location of the shortcut. For this example, I can move to the 3dViewport, hit spacebar, and type active which pulls up a list including the item i need "set active object as camera".<br>
<br>Or perhaps this spacebar feature should be put in a top 10 things to know about blender and the entry to the wiki.<br><br>kesten<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 5:00 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bf-docboard-request@blender.org">bf-docboard-request@blender.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Send Bf-docboard mailing list submissions to<br>
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: The pdf version of User's manual is 15 months old- How<br>
about a new one? (John Blain)<br>
2. Re: Wiki upgrade 2011 (Jared Reisweber)<br>
3. Re: The pdf version of User's manual is 15 months old- How<br>
about a new one? (Raindrops From Sky)<br>
4. Re: Wiki upgrade 2011 (Raindrops From Sky)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 06:40:17 +1000<br>
From: John Blain <<a href="mailto:silverjb12@gmail.com">silverjb12@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Bf-docboard] The pdf version of User's manual is 15<br>
months old- How about a new one?<br>
To: Blender Documentation Project <<a href="mailto:bf-docboard@blender.org">bf-docboard@blender.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAHCKqi=<a href="mailto:ytm9M8cNRp0LxARduc1A76EjORJg-i4N9LiGbTqcUtw@mail.gmail.com">ytm9M8cNRp0LxARduc1A76EjORJg-i4N9LiGbTqcUtw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hi Narayan<br>
<br>
In this discussion what sort of a PDF manual are you guys discussing? My<br>
Blender 2.59 PDF manual is there for grabs if you want a book for beginners.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://silverjb.limewebs.com/index.html" target="_blank">http://silverjb.limewebs.com/index.html</a><br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
John Blain<br>
<br>
On 24 September 2011 19:09, Raindrops From Sky<br>
<<a href="mailto:raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com">raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
<br>
> Actually we should NOT expect a 15-months old manual to be in demand any<br>
> more; especially because the new 2.5x Blender is totally different.<br>
><br>
> Let us not question whether this project is worth the effort.<br>
> I would be happy to put all the effort in making the new pdf manual.<br>
><br>
> That leaves only the task of installing the extension to export as odt. So<br>
> let us simply go ahead and do it! :)<br>
><br>
> BTW the pdf would NOT be a direct transcription of wiki, but a totally<br>
> different creation.<br>
> Compare the LMMS wiki with the pdf manual I created; and see what I mean.<br>
><br>
> If the "export as odt" extension is not available, I could rip the website<br>
> with Httrack and make the manual.<br>
> I propose to release the pdf manual with CC license.<br>
> Please let me know if there are any issues with this idea.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> Narayan<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Bf-docboard mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Bf-docboard@blender.org">Bf-docboard@blender.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-docboard" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-docboard</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 22:16:57 -0400<br>
From: Jared Reisweber <<a href="mailto:jaredr122@gmail.com">jaredr122@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Bf-docboard] Wiki upgrade 2011<br>
To: Blender Documentation Project <<a href="mailto:bf-docboard@blender.org">bf-docboard@blender.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAJgraRQdazZx1U%2BADhwyCKM7Oyt8fPcp1ka2smzaDqLmQCqUoA@mail.gmail.com">CAJgraRQdazZx1U+ADhwyCKM7Oyt8fPcp1ka2smzaDqLmQCqUoA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Nice work Mindrones! Its definitely a lot easier to read now. I agree about<br>
the ability to collapse the nav tree, and the side bar disappearing.<br>
<br>
I saw that you reverted the 2.5 index to match the 2.4 index. I kept track<br>
of the changes i made to the 2.5 index and manual pages:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgUiaPsPYcKpdElpc2V3S1JIb21kUTNMT0YzTTJ2X3c&hl=en_US#gid=1" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgUiaPsPYcKpdElpc2V3S1JIb21kUTNMT0YzTTJ2X3c&hl=en_US#gid=1</a><br>
<br>
The first page lists the status of the wiki, as it appears in the sandbox<br>
version (<br>
<a href="http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Meta:Sandbox/Doc:2.5/Manual_Proposal" target="_blank">http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Meta:Sandbox/Doc:2.5/Manual_Proposal</a>). It<br>
includes pages that do not exist, exist but need major improvement, and<br>
pages that seem complete. I've been updating this as new pages have been<br>
added, but wiki editors should feel free to update this as well.<br>
<br>
The second page compares the old index with the new index ( new pages,<br>
removed links, changed page names, and moved content), which should help<br>
with managing all the 2.5 content(transferring pages, renaming pages,<br>
preventing duplicate wiki content, etc.). It is missing a few entries that<br>
were added recently to the index, however.<br>
<br>
-Jared<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:19 AM, Raindrops From Sky <<br>
<a href="mailto:raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com">raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi!<br>
><br>
> The new light background is far easier to read. The gray background ensures<br>
> that long hours of reading does not tire the eyes. Fantastic!<br>
><br>
> I have two LCD monitors; one 17" monitor with 1.25:1 aspect ratio and the<br>
> other 22" HD monitor with 16:9 ratio. Because of high-resolutions, I have to<br>
> use different zoom factors for both (for all Windows applications; including<br>
> FireFox).<br>
><br>
> When I zoom in, the right-side panel vanishes; and the tree panel occupies<br>
> a disproportionately large screen space. Can this be looked into?<br>
><br>
> I have another suggestion: The tree is not needed all the time. Can we fold<br>
> it away with a click (or resize it by dragging), as in the side bar of<br>
> FireFox?<br>
><br>
> Alternatively, it could have a button to fold/unfold as in Google Map or<br>
> Google wiki (see sample here, where a << button hides the side-panel:<br>
> <a href="http://code.google.com/p/zscreen/wiki/ZScreenWiki?tm=6" target="_blank">http://code.google.com/p/zscreen/wiki/ZScreenWiki?tm=6</a><br>
><br>
> Thanks and regards,<br>
> Narayan<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Bf-docboard mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Bf-docboard@blender.org">Bf-docboard@blender.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-docboard" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-docboard</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 09:08:03 +0530<br>
From: Raindrops From Sky <<a href="mailto:raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com">raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Bf-docboard] The pdf version of User's manual is 15<br>
months old- How about a new one?<br>
To: Blender Documentation Project <<a href="mailto:bf-docboard@blender.org">bf-docboard@blender.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAFBj6EdgP-iZW-Rua0h8EoTCzq6sXAN4m6fR47ErLucMPNuoqg@mail.gmail.com">CAFBj6EdgP-iZW-Rua0h8EoTCzq6sXAN4m6fR47ErLucMPNuoqg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
For sure, John! I have followed your book right from the beginning.<br>
<br>
Then there is another excellent book called 'Blender Basics', by James<br>
Chronister.<br>
<a href="http://www.cdschools.org/54223045235521/lib/54223045235521/BlenderBasics_4thEdition2011.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.cdschools.org/54223045235521/lib/54223045235521/BlenderBasics_4thEdition2011.pdf</a><br>
<br>
Both these books are meant for beginners; so they cover only the<br>
basics of each topic.<br>
Too much detail would overwhelm and discourage a newbie; so this is<br>
the right approach.<br>
Once the self-confidence of the user grows, he is expected to explore<br>
the Blender GUI further on his own.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, a User Manual must explain the GUI fully, screen-by-screen.<br>
It is supposed to provide reference information to users with all<br>
expertise levels.<br>
<br>
I want to create a comprehensive user's manual that goes beyond a<br>
visual tour of Blender.<br>
<br>
Here are two examples of my approach:<br>
<a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/lmms/files/UserManual/UserManual_0.4.12.1_2011-08-30.pdf/download" target="_blank">http://sourceforge.net/projects/lmms/files/UserManual/UserManual_0.4.12.1_2011-08-30.pdf/download</a><br>
<a href="http://www.den4b.com/wiki/ReNamer" target="_blank">http://www.den4b.com/wiki/ReNamer</a><br>
<br>
The common theme in my user manuals is that they explain how each<br>
screen works, explain the working principles; and provide further<br>
references for the more enlightened reader.<br>
<br>
They change significantly based on the needs of the target application:<br>
<br>
The ReNamer is a small application with a workflow-based GUI.<br>
Therefore its manual has mostly screen-by-screen explanation (with<br>
examples). However, the manual also treats two complex topics: RegEx<br>
and Pascal script. There are several flavors of RegEx, so it was<br>
necessary explain the flavor used in ReNamer. On the other hand,<br>
Pascal Script is not so widely used, so it is difficult to find good<br>
tutorials on it. So I added a quick guide on the subject.<br>
<br>
Check them out!<br>
<a href="http://www.den4b.com/wiki/ReNamer:Pascal_Script:Quick_guide" target="_blank">http://www.den4b.com/wiki/ReNamer:Pascal_Script:Quick_guide</a><br>
<a href="http://www.den4b.com/wiki/ReNamer:Regular_Expressions" target="_blank">http://www.den4b.com/wiki/ReNamer:Regular_Expressions</a><br>
<br>
On the other hand, LMMS is a complex application with totally<br>
non-conventional controls and a large number of interrelated windows.<br>
Further, the users are not expected to be familiar with the theory of<br>
music. So this manual follows a totally different approach: The<br>
musical/acoustic terms are explained first, with further reference to<br>
Wikipedia. Then a functional diagram of LMMS is given. That is<br>
followed by the screen-by-screen explanation. At all times, the<br>
interrelationship between different windows is highlighted.<br>
<br>
Blender is at a much higher level compared to LMMS, with many<br>
underlying principles to be explained. So its user manual has to be<br>
even more comprehensive.<br>
<br>
To conclude, the User's Manual I am proposing is quite different from<br>
the existing books.<br>
It is a reference book that can also be read from cover to cover, by<br>
newbies and pros alike.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Narayan<br>
<br>
On 9/25/11, John Blain <<a href="mailto:silverjb12@gmail.com">silverjb12@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi Narayan<br>
><br>
> In this discussion what sort of a PDF manual are you guys discussing? My<br>
> Blender 2.59 PDF manual is there for grabs if you want a book for beginners.<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://silverjb.limewebs.com/index.html" target="_blank">http://silverjb.limewebs.com/index.html</a><br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> John Blain<br>
><br>
> On 24 September 2011 19:09, Raindrops From Sky<br>
> <<a href="mailto:raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com">raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Actually we should NOT expect a 15-months old manual to be in demand any<br>
>> more; especially because the new 2.5x Blender is totally different.<br>
>><br>
>> Let us not question whether this project is worth the effort.<br>
>> I would be happy to put all the effort in making the new pdf manual.<br>
>><br>
>> That leaves only the task of installing the extension to export as odt. So<br>
>> let us simply go ahead and do it! :)<br>
>><br>
>> BTW the pdf would NOT be a direct transcription of wiki, but a totally<br>
>> different creation.<br>
>> Compare the LMMS wiki with the pdf manual I created; and see what I mean.<br>
>><br>
>> If the "export as odt" extension is not available, I could rip the website<br>
>> with Httrack and make the manual.<br>
>> I propose to release the pdf manual with CC license.<br>
>> Please let me know if there are any issues with this idea.<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> Narayan<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Bf-docboard mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Bf-docboard@blender.org">Bf-docboard@blender.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-docboard" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-docboard</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 09:49:22 +0530<br>
From: Raindrops From Sky <<a href="mailto:raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com">raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Bf-docboard] Wiki upgrade 2011<br>
To: Blender Documentation Project <<a href="mailto:bf-docboard@blender.org">bf-docboard@blender.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAFBj6EdTEf3Q3q=<a href="mailto:vweo1_WLgJVaC0f%2BTSFbnE6pM3r7uw8-uxg@mail.gmail.com">vweo1_WLgJVaC0f+TSFbnE6pM3r7uw8-uxg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Fantastic organized work, Jared!<br>
<br>
Some suggestions:<br>
What do the different background colors mean in Sheet1?<br>
Why are the two columns blank? ("name change?" and "Hotkeys?")<br>
Are the wiki pages supposed to have hotkeys?<br>
<br>
In your sandbox TOC, the Nav tree looks severely pruned (positively<br>
frost-bitten :)).<br>
If the tree is fully functional, people would be able to see the merit<br>
in your proposed changes more easily. Just my two cents...<br>
<br>
Luca, is there a plan to formally review+approve the re-organized TOC<br>
proposed by Jared?<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Narayan<br>
<br>
On 9/25/11, Jared Reisweber <<a href="mailto:jaredr122@gmail.com">jaredr122@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Nice work Mindrones! Its definitely a lot easier to read now. I agree about<br>
> the ability to collapse the nav tree, and the side bar disappearing.<br>
><br>
> I saw that you reverted the 2.5 index to match the 2.4 index. I kept track<br>
> of the changes i made to the 2.5 index and manual pages:<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgUiaPsPYcKpdElpc2V3S1JIb21kUTNMT0YzTTJ2X3c&hl=en_US#gid=1" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgUiaPsPYcKpdElpc2V3S1JIb21kUTNMT0YzTTJ2X3c&hl=en_US#gid=1</a><br>
><br>
> The first page lists the status of the wiki, as it appears in the sandbox<br>
> version (<br>
> <a href="http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Meta:Sandbox/Doc:2.5/Manual_Proposal" target="_blank">http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Meta:Sandbox/Doc:2.5/Manual_Proposal</a>). It<br>
> includes pages that do not exist, exist but need major improvement, and<br>
> pages that seem complete. I've been updating this as new pages have been<br>
> added, but wiki editors should feel free to update this as well.<br>
><br>
> The second page compares the old index with the new index ( new pages,<br>
> removed links, changed page names, and moved content), which should help<br>
> with managing all the 2.5 content(transferring pages, renaming pages,<br>
> preventing duplicate wiki content, etc.). It is missing a few entries that<br>
> were added recently to the index, however.<br>
><br>
> -Jared<br>
><br>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:19 AM, Raindrops From Sky <<br>
> <a href="mailto:raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com">raindrops.fromsky@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Hi!<br>
>><br>
>> The new light background is far easier to read. The gray background<br>
>> ensures<br>
>> that long hours of reading does not tire the eyes. Fantastic!<br>
>><br>
>> I have two LCD monitors; one 17" monitor with 1.25:1 aspect ratio and the<br>
>> other 22" HD monitor with 16:9 ratio. Because of high-resolutions, I have<br>
>> to<br>
>> use different zoom factors for both (for all Windows applications;<br>
>> including<br>
>> FireFox).<br>
>><br>
>> When I zoom in, the right-side panel vanishes; and the tree panel occupies<br>
>> a disproportionately large screen space. Can this be looked into?<br>
>><br>
>> I have another suggestion: The tree is not needed all the time. Can we<br>
>> fold<br>
>> it away with a click (or resize it by dragging), as in the side bar of<br>
>> FireFox?<br>
>><br>
>> Alternatively, it could have a button to fold/unfold as in Google Map or<br>
>> Google wiki (see sample here, where a << button hides the side-panel:<br>
>> <a href="http://code.google.com/p/zscreen/wiki/ZScreenWiki?tm=6" target="_blank">http://code.google.com/p/zscreen/wiki/ZScreenWiki?tm=6</a><br>
>><br>
>> Thanks and regards,<br>
>> Narayan<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Bf-docboard mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Bf-docboard@blender.org">Bf-docboard@blender.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-docboard" target="_blank">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-docboard</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bf-docboard mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Bf-docboard@blender.org">Bf-docboard@blender.org</a><br>
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<br>
<br>
End of Bf-docboard Digest, Vol 79, Issue 3<br>
******************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><br>Kesten Broughton<br>President and Technology Director, Solar Mobile Trailers<br><a href="http://www.sunfarmkitchens.ca" target="_blank">kesten@solarmobiletrailers.com<br>
www.sunfarmkitchens.ca</a><br>US/Can 512 701 4209<br>Mexico <font face="sans-serif"><font size="2"> 011 52 196 1142 0302</font></font>
<br>skype atlanticzebra<br>3294 Route 490 Dundas, <br>
NB Canada E1G
3K2
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