[Bf-committers] Volumetrics update

[Markus Schulz]

Here is a log from IRC, starts 10:03 EDT, I suggest to use the search 
function to scan through the text:
* kaito has changed the topic to: Sunday meeting!
<bdiego> 11am !!: P
* Evangel has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
<jaguarandi> right on time :)
<PapaSmurf> 11:03, ur late. you buy the donuts next week.
<kaito> now i finally write some code, and dang we got meeting!
<PapaSmurf> lol
<kaito> phew, code works so i can commit :)
<kaito> just depsgraph fix
* tiagosr (n=Tiago at 189.24.91.232) has joined #blendercoders
<kaito> so... topics are the usual: 1) current projects 2) soc 3) 2.47 
todos/plans
* serz (n=serz at 62-101-126-238.ip.fastwebnet.it) has joined #blendercoders
<kaito> unless we have other?
<kaito> if so, pm me if you dare! :P
* kaito has changed the topic to: Sunday meeting: 1) current projects
* mal_CanDo reminds about volumetrics ( http://farsthary.wordpress.com/ 
) for current projects
<kaito> zaghaghi: news about the scatter stuff?
* Artificer (n=user at ppp121-44-255-118.lns4.mel4.internode.on.net) has 
joined #blendercoders
<mal_CanDo> not for 2.47 obviously
* brecht (n=brecht at blender/coder/b-ix) has joined #blendercoders
<kaito> mal_CanDo: i think its not a 2.47 target
<zaghaghi> kaito, broken will tell me his adea about changes
* mornifle (n=mornifle at 222.127.187.134) has joined #blendercoders
<zaghaghi> and then i change it
<kaito> nice :)
<zaghaghi> brecht did a good review on ocean and i'll work on it too
<zaghaghi> currently i'm working on some bugs for 2d-filters,
<kaito> i guess broken mostly wants to allow people to very quickly make 
good skies
<kaito> the fewer buttons (or hidden) the better. some preset stuff?
<joeedh> oh it's meeting time
<zaghaghi> yes, also he think of structures, so as he said before, sky 
data be in one data block
* blengine (n=chris at dhcp-077-249-094-254.chello.nl) has joined 
#blendercoders
<zaghaghi> sky data will be in one data block
* serz (n=serz at 62-101-126-238.ip.fastwebnet.it) has left #blendercoders 
("bye")
<kaito> is that all? :)
<kaito> ben2610: you are working on trunk right?
<joeedh> erm.
<ben2610> yes
* joeedh wanted to discuss dsm
<kaito> ben2610: and thats for 2.47? in that case bdiego moves it over
<kaito> joeedh: dsm is finished? :)
* x_fight81 
(n=filippo at host44-189-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has 
joined #blendercoders
* jedihe (n=jedihe at 69.79.145.247) has joined #blendercoders
<joeedh> it's close!
<Genscher> and sound (already merged?)
<kaito> coder close or user close? :)
<ben2610> some is for 2.47 (bug fix), some are new features, mainly to 
support Apricot
<joeedh> coder close.  needs more user testing :)
<kaito> coder close = 1 - user close
<joeedh> also need to rework the shadow buffer panel when in dsm mode
<kaito> hrms formula is wrong
* jensverwiebe has quit ()
* b333rt (n=mimimi at p54BB6FC2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #blendercoders
<lukep> coder close = 1/user closer ?
<joeedh> coder close -= (1 - user close)
<joeedh> whatever.
<kaito> well very important :)
<joeedh> anyway, I'm not aiming for any sort of soft shadows for now, so 
only hard-edge dsm shadows at the moment.
<kaito> joeedh: but volumetric
<joeedh> yeah.
<kaito> make a nice blog with pics!
<joeedh> actually, technically the volumetric and solid passes have to 
be combined in a special function I don't have, and won't write until I 
actually hook into the new volumetric code.
<kaito> if you get good pics you get users
<joeedh> hrm.  good idea.
<kaito> make em greedy
* PapaSmurf has quit ("Leaving")
<sevalso> kaito is a merchandiser now.
<joeedh> erm.  I just remembered, I don't support halos. . .not sure 
what to do about that
* levon_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
<joeedh> guess I could try copying whatever function renders haloes for 
tiles, only split it up into the correct places. . .yeek.
<sevalso> actually. never got a volumetric build working on win here.
<kaito> sevalso: i converted to "agile programming" :)
* joeedh would rather do haloes and volumetrics, erm later.
<joeedh> after initial trunk commit.
<kaito> ... well my version of it: "It aint work until the artists 
happily use it"
<kaito> (happily optional)
<sevalso> artists. happy. wow... what a strange concept. but anyway
<kaito> ;)
<kaito> happy artists are great!
<joeedh> hrm.
* georg (n=georg at 62-47-3-160.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined 
#blendercoders
<Genscher> joeedh, i think that's a great idea
<sevalso> happy artists are less productive.
<joeedh> Genscher: what idea are you referring to, speciifcally?
<kaito> volumetrix halos?
* georg (n=georg at 62-47-3-160.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has left 
#blendercoders ("Konversation terminated!")
* kaito suggests to also move on, unless there's actions/decisions involved
<joeedh> um my comment on not doing volumetrics or haloes till after 
initial trunk review commit whatever?
<kaito> joeedh: you need help? test? docs?
<Genscher> audio?
<kaito> Bobalicious: hows progress?
<joeedh> eh think I mostly need user testing help at this point, so no 
action needed here.
<kaito> bob is doing hcubes patch integration
* jahka_afk (n=opera at dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe2cfa00-163.dhcp.inet.fi) has 
joined #blendercoders
<Genscher> very nice of Bobalicious
<kaito> oh bob is doing a 72 hour nonstop project now...
<mal_CanDo> 
http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2008-July/014856.html 
and http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2008-July/014809.html
<kaito> we can wait for it to be over
<mal_CanDo> oh, and 
http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2008-July/014810.html  
( 3 commits by Bob )
* kaito has changed the topic to: Sunday meeting: 2) summer of code
<kaito> if bob wakes up we can bring topic back
<kaito> UncleZeiv: yo!
<UncleZeiv> ok
<kaito> show url of your blog
* charolastra has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<UncleZeiv> it's here, but no updates from last week there: 
http://unclezeiv.kerid.org/
* skejoe has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
<UncleZeiv> there's a thread on blenderartists with some tests going on
<UncleZeiv> http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=130004
<kaito> how is this going to be integrated (in UI, in shader pipeline)
<UncleZeiv> this week was mostly bugfix and completing support for 
textured area lights
<kaito> is there a plan for it?
<UncleZeiv> as for UI
<UncleZeiv> the current UI is of course "coder" oriented
<UncleZeiv> but it sort of gives an idea of what the final one could be
<UncleZeiv> it should'n require many parameters
<UncleZeiv> -> shouldn't
<UncleZeiv> one problem is that some features will not be supported
<kaito> is there a doc about it?
<kaito> like; how do you call this, shadow? light? shading?
<UncleZeiv> for instance curve attenuation for light can't be 
supported... so I need a way to notify the user when the current 
configuration is not going to render correctly
<kaito> does it fit with the current pipeline?
<UncleZeiv> kaito: ok, I get the message
<kaito> or is it separated like AO
<UncleZeiv> I'll write this document
<kaito> this stuff you can contact me or brecht for
* levon_ (n=Miranda at ppp121-45-167-96.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has 
joined #blendercoders
* dronn (n=ego at 82.149.81.127) has joined #blendercoders
<UncleZeiv> ok
<UncleZeiv> I'll put an outline of this on the wiki
<UncleZeiv> and I'll send it to you and brecht before next meeting
<UncleZeiv> sounds ok?
<kaito> great
* gustavg has quit ("*poff*")
* _rush_ (n=rushyour at 66.90.26.251) has joined #blendercoders
* kaito waits for other sockers
<jaguarandi> http://andresp.no-ip.org/gsoc/shrinkwrap/cloth/
<jaguarandi> this the method I found to solve the intersections 
problem.. as described in the week report
<kaito> slow website...
<jaguarandi> tought it still has some intersections
<kaito> i'd advise you to put this in blender wiki too :)
<mxcurioni> on my side, I am halfway getting SWIG out of Freestyle
<mxcurioni> I can't show anything now. My goal is to have it done for 
next week
<kaito> jaguarandi: aah, last screenie shows it well :)
<mxcurioni> once that's done, I'll remove lib3ds out Freestyle
<mxcurioni> and then I'll finally be able to use Blender's rendering 
engine to render the strokes
<kaito> mxcurioni: and then you can do enduser/art tests?
* karpov (n=milovann at men75-7-82-239-164-57.fbx.proxad.net) has joined 
#blendercoders
<mxcurioni> kaito: yes
<jaguarandi> mainly the problem is related to 2 things: "joining patchs 
of cloths" and "subdivision"
<kaito> mxcurioni: great!
<kaito> real integrated renderlayer for this will be very powerful
<jaguarandi> Does blender has any subdivision method based on quad area 
or edge len?
<mxcurioni> I'll try to work with blenderartists' people to see if they 
can use my work
<UncleZeiv> nice shrinkwrap screens also here: 
http://blenderlabrat.blogspot.com/2008/07/shrinkwrap.html
* pidhash (n=joilnen at 189.92.0.237) has joined #blendercoders
<mxcurioni> but it can't happen before swig and lib3ds are removed
<ao2> mxcurioni, will it be possible to use freestyle also as a 
standalone command line renderer after your work?
<lukep> kaito: removing lib3ds means using render database as input for 
freestyle btw
<kaito> lukep: yep, awesome :)
<jaguarandi> UncleZeiv, thanks for linking :D (I hadnt seen them yet)
<nicholasbishop> ha, same website has "giant turd" multires video!
<nicholasbishop> 
http://blenderlabrat.blogspot.com/2008/07/multires-revisited.html
* ianwill (n=Willian at 189-46-55-159.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined 
#blendercoders
<mxcurioni> a02: yes, in the same way that the internal renderer can be 
used via command line
<mxcurioni> a02: I don't see any difference with the current capabilities
<joeedh> nicholasbishop: lol
<kaito> mxcurioni: do you have a doc about proposed final pipeline, or 
diagram of it?
<ao2> ah, ok, you mean launching blender in batch mode, ok that's good 
too. Originally I mant as a standalone software itself, but not that 
important.
<kaito> mxcurioni: 
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/RenderPipeline
<mxcurioni> kaito: we talked about it, lukep and I, but have not done. 
Will present that to you and Brecht when I work on the pipeline integration
<mxcurioni> ao2: Freestyle won't run as a standalone software anymore, 
it will be integrated in the rendering pipeline
<Bobalicious> kaito, sorry, sleep deprived
<mal_CanDo> a02, with Blender 2.5 and customisable UI, you'll be able to 
make a stand-alone tool for it :)
<Bobalicious> progress is giong well.  should commit to trunk this week
<Bobalicious> getting another patch from hcube hopefully today
<Bobalicious> then a nap
<ao2> mxcurioni, ok, I see. Thanks.
<Bobalicious> then commit
<quorn> the text editor is coming along nicely now, writing up design 
docs and updating the wiki. need to run the bpy module by the bf-python 
list but it's looking good at the moment
<kaito> Bobalicious: ok thanks :)
<nicholasbishop> my progress: http://www.vimeo.com/1372936
<nicholasbishop> last night i got sculpting on all multires levels working
<quorn> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:Quorn/SummerOfCode2008
<joeedh> ah cool
<kaito> its a sign that people here use sculpting for turds and certain 
human organs :)
<joeedh> nicholasbishop: btw, do you have a wiki page with the design 
and stuff?
<mal_CanDo> quorn - sounds cool, some screenshots might help in the WIKI
<nicholasbishop> joeedh: there's an overview here: 
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:Nicholasbishop/SummerOfCode2008/MidtermReport
<kaito> quorn: who here helps you testing?
<quorn> mal_CanDo: i'll get on that
<nicholasbishop> but no proper technical overview yet
* kaito is not a hardcore pythoneer...
<joeedh> nicholasbishop: heh, I love the phrase "The old system, briefly 
described, was a parasite on the Mesh struct"
* Artificer (n=user at ppp121-44-255-118.lns4.mel4.internode.on.net) has 
left #blendercoders
<mal_CanDo> quorn, Blenders internal editor *really* needed an update 
like this
<quorn> kaito: ideasman42 and mindrones but could definately use some more
<kaito> quorn: i would advise to make a similar screencapture with 
comments as nicholasbishop?
<kaito> people are soooo spoiled here :)
<kaito> we dont read txt, we watch clips!
* stiv (n=steve at blender/coder/stivs) has joined #blendercoders
* nicholasbishop is a trendsetter
<quorn> kaito: ok, will do
<kaito> quorn: might give much more attention for your work too
* joeedh is excited with quorn's work; the text editor's so bad, he 
actually wrote a replacement in python while back :)
<quorn> joeedh: have you had a look yet?
<ideasman42> quorn, definetly, just make a vid of your features. Its 
worth the effort to get that setup. also to give people an idea of the speed
<joeedh> eh no.  I'm currently too lazy to compile all the many branches 
I probably should.
<joeedh> so nice screencasts would be great :)
<quorn> :)
<mal_CanDo> for all soc-ers, having a good Wiki page with vids will 
probably also get a link to from blendernation news feed ( on the main 
Blender site ), and get a LOT of mid-way publicity for your work ( esp 
pre-publicity for final versions )
* IamInnocent (n=jean at bas2-montreal31-1177827280.dsl.bell.ca) has joined 
#blendercoders
<karpov> tabernacle !
* skejoe (n=skejoe at 0x57317588.hsnxx1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) has joined 
#blendercoders
<IamInnocent> Eh, oh
<karpov> :)
<kaito> oops
<cwant> it was nice to see another blendernation article last week -- is 
there any blendernation people here that would do another one for this week?
<kaito> lets see i think we had all soccers
<karpov> do you mean rugby ?
<kaito> cwant: bn is a bit anarchy at moment :)
<kaito> they want ready-made stuff
<pidhash>  /topic
* skejoe has quit (Client Quit)
<kaito> 10 lines of text + 2 pictures, and they publish
<kaito> maybe the mentors can provide this :)
* kaito has changed the topic to: Sunday meeting: 3) 2.47 planning
<mal_CanDo> with bn, by the time they published about my blender GE 
course, it was sold out!
<cwant> ok, any users willing to write a soc article? (I think either 
either shrinkwrap or lightcuts for now)
<karpov> architecture
<cwant> kaito: mentors would be good
<kaito> lightcuts is easy, just copy blog
<cwant> I think Nichod (who isn't here) did the one last week, so I'll 
harrass him when I see him (he is a bn editor)
<IamInnocent> they're all easy if mentor can't I'll supply
<cwant> IamInnocent: excellent!
<UncleZeiv> of course I'm available for helping out if needed...
* Bobalicious has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<kaito> IamInnocent: its not 'cannot' it is 'justdoit' :)
* Bobalicious (n=f at 66.173.230.50) has joined #blendercoders
<IamInnocent> @cwant : pm me on BA
<kaito> cwant: so IamInnocent now officially appointed to be the BN 
article submitter?
* kaito votes ya!
<cwant> kaito: sounds good!
* [joeedh] (n=chatzill at student5711.student.nau.edu) has joined 
#blendercoders
<cwant> IamInnocent: alright, but I don't visit BA very often
<kaito> IamInnocent: congrats :P
* joeedh is now known as Guest59603
<kaito> IamInnocent: just submit short stories about lightcuts and 
shrinkwrap?
* [joeedh] is now known as joeedh
<IamInnocent> ok
<kaito> coolness
<karpov> what is the ' blender nation' article are you talking about ?
<jaguarandi> IamInnocent, you can ask me anything you need to know for 
making the article
<IamInnocent> @ jaguarandi : I will
<mal_CanDo> karpov, check out news section on www.blender.org - it comes 
from BlenderNation
<IamInnocent> I'll submit the articles by tomorrow
<kaito> ok
<kaito> 2.47 status
<cwant> karpov: multires article from July 15
<kaito> we should move to bcon4 now, getting testbuilds, if we want a 
august 10 release
<bdiego> yes, but what about sound and sky ?
<kaito> yeah :/
<bdiego> any plans to merge ?
<bdiego> well, sky already is in trunk, so I can get it.. but probably 
need more test, right ?
<kaito> lamp-sky scatter will become world-sky scatter with optional 
lamp level usage
<lukep> and tracker status is far from good
<kaito> today 11 down!
<kaito> #12 soon
<kaito> who has all bugs assigned to self and no time for it?
<kaito> hrms. a lot of them unasigned apparently
<bdiego> yes
<kaito> well; let's mail a warning to bf-committers list that things 
should wrap up in a week
<kaito> or we dont do sig release but after sig
<kaito> the bug tracker is 75% support issues
* skejoe (n=skejoe at 0x57317588.hsnxx1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) has joined 
#blendercoders
<joeedh> sky's in trunk?
<kaito> i didnt see the recent reports, but 2 weeks ago i didnt see 
showstoppers
<Genscher> joeedh, sinece 2 weeks
<joeedh> wow.  I have been behind on commit mails.  majorly.
<joeedh> there must be thousands of them by now I've missed
<kaito> we call it 'sky' but it has been coded as 'sun' :)
<bdiego> yes, sorry and joeedh the mail isnot in the ML (i don't know 
why.. probably permissions ? filter ? or somthing like that ? )
<joeedh> too many files changed, probably like what happened to me and 
Bobalicious :)
<joeedh> so it went beyond the 200 kilobyte mail limit
<joeedh> for bf-blender-cvs
<kaito> we should forbid coding on blender!
<joeedh> lol!
<levon_> new rule, only kaito can code for blender
<kaito> only bugfixes and refactors for a year!
<mal_CanDo> after 3) 2.47 planning, is it ok to have a 4) other stuff?  
( the volumetrics guy was looking for a bit of feedback ), and also the 
recent command line patch
* LetterRip (n=tom at blender/coder/pdpc.bronze.LetterRip) has joined 
#blendercoders
<kaito> for 2.47: let's move discussion to mailing list to review status
<kaito> i will summarize in email what was said here
<kaito> other 2.47 stuff?
<bdiego> I think that not
<troubled> joeedh: ahh, you got that addressed then?
<directedition> sorry to but in here, but I was wondering if the BGE 
might see anything new or interesting in 2.47?
* kaito has changed the topic to: Sunday meeting: 4) patch feedback
<joeedh> troubled: yeah
<joeedh> btw is there a bilinear interpolation function somewhere?
<kaito> directedition: if we do a 2.47 update (as scheduled) we better 
not add that
<directedition> alright, thanks
<kaito> problem: 2.47 gets delayed a bit and a bit ...
<kaito> until it becomes ridiculous to not include GE stuff :)
<directedition> hehe
<bdiego> joeedh, unageoricess,c ?
<kaito> but, we will add the logic improvements
<directedition> cool
<bdiego> sorryt, imageprocess.c
<kaito> glsl not
<joeedh> ah ok.
<bdiego> imbuf/inter
* joeedh was going to say. . .unageoricess.c? that would be an 
interesting filename :P
<joeedh> thanks
<bdiego> haha
<bdiego> yeah
<mal_CanDo> With regards volumetrics ( http://farsthary.wordpress.com/ ) 
what is some initial feedback, and also possibly the best way to move 
forward ( eg create a new volumentrics branch )
<Genscher> yeah, would be nice
<joeedh> yeah a volumetrics branch would be a good thing
<mal_CanDo> I think it's amazing what one person has done, with very 
little internet connection
* kaito quicky codes unageoricing
<mal_CanDo> ( little internet connection = of course little connection 
with other Blender devs )
* LetterRip waves quick hi to group
<UncleZeiv> but also less distractions ;)
* Guest59603 has quit (Connection timed out)
<bdiego> hi LetterRip
<kaito> anyone here even tried volumetrix?
* Nichod (n=Brian at 72.215.226.141) has joined #blendercoders
<levon_> i have, it seems to work quite well
<Genscher> yep, works nice
<mal_CanDo> kaito, http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1161345
<levon_> its not hugely useful besides making eyecandy volumetrics
<Genscher> [just a little important question: is there a way to unlink 
blend files you have linked in before?]
<Genscher> levon_, it is codewise (elbeem could be rendered without 
transforming to mesh before e.g.)
<Genscher> and smoke! kaito wants smoke for durian ;)
<mal_CanDo> maybe a more important question - would volumetrics be 
useful for durian  - Genscher just got in there before me :)
<levon_> oh yeah, im sure its coded well.. but i mean untill smoke is 
programs, its not got alot of uses
<LetterRip> is it fast enough to be useful?
* kaito wants epic amounts of dramatic smoke!
<Nichod> problem with these volumetrics is the speed
<mal_CanDo> like the amounts of smoke used in StreetHawk?
<Genscher> that is normal
<Nichod> waaay slow compared to other implementations.
<troubled> mal_CanDo: hehe: `I know that there is no such thing as an 
"instant awesome" button....`
<Genscher> Nichod, so what is your reference?
<Nichod> Messiah, XSI, Maya
<Genscher> Nichod, do they render volumetric?
<Nichod> Messiah and XSI have been the fastest I've used/seen.
<Nichod> yes.
<Nichod> ray marching
<Nichod> which i think is the same thing being used in blender. it 
probably just needs optimization.\
<Genscher> ray marching - i so that term in the elbeem code somewhere
<Genscher> ;)
<Genscher> *saw
<kaito> evaluating 1000 noise calls per pixel is slow
<kaito> probably the most common functions are cache-optimized
<kaito> so re-entry can skip 90% of calculus
<LetterRip> slightly offtopic will 'we' have a presence at siggraph asia?
* levon_ has quit ("You'll find a note and you'll see my silhouette...")
<Nichod> anyway. all i'm saying is its waaay slow and could be optimized.
<kaito> LetterRip: a BoF is being arranged
<kaito> LetterRip: bugman_2000 is inolved
* oblenob (i=4f4c4c16 at gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-303648de12b40b7d) 
has joined #blendercoders
<LetterRip> is sacha going to be close enough to visit?
<kaito> its in his town :)
<LetterRip> ah nice
<kaito> you bet damn he will!
<mal_CanDo> so, what would be good to say back to the volumentrics coder 
as a general impression ( see bottom of 
http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2008-July/021409.html )
<kaito> i hope to find a partner to share a computer with on tradeshow 
in sig asia
<mal_CanDo> "looks great, goon enough to get a separate ( official ) 
branch for it"
<mal_CanDo> goon = good :)
<Nichod> anyone else tweaking the code for volumetrics? or UI?
<LetterRip> mal_CanDo, he can't really use a branch
<LetterRip> due to his net situation
<oblenob> wow... Blender is growing faster than I can ever remember at 
the moment
<Genscher> LetterRip, but we could more easily access it
<mal_CanDo> LetterRip, but others can ( to help improve his branch / 
optimise etc ), so he's connected a bit more than current situation
<Nichod> perhaps someone else could do the branch and work with him.
<Nichod> maybe a mentoring type deal to help walk him through UI 
improvements, etc
<Genscher> Nichod, not possible, don't forget it's his master thesis
<Nichod> ahh.
<Nichod> that's right.
<Genscher> communicating can be done via ML and is being done (also a 
little bit weak from blender dev side) ;)
<UncleZeiv> he also mentioned not being able to connect at all in 
august, if I understood correctly
<Nichod> really i think the volumetrics would work a lot better as a 
node. but thats just me and my love for nodes.
<Nichod> yes. no internet access. but he said he had someone would he 
could communicate through occasionally and that he would work on the 
code still.
<IamInnocent> maybe send him smoke signals ?
<Genscher> Nichod, not a good idea.
<Nichod> ?
<Genscher> Nichod, volumetrics + node
<mal_CanDo> I have to run ( stayed as long as I could, gf is shouting 
now ) , but here are two other things I was hoping to mention  - the 
Command Line enhancements ( 
http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2008-July/021408.html ) 
and this thread linked to the Marmite problem of gestures ( you love it, 
or hate it ) and having an option to disable ( 
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=130
<mal_CanDo> 120 ) - I would personally disable them if the option was 
there, not wanting to offend the original author of gestures of course 
:)    Adios!
<Genscher> whatever :)
<Nichod> performance issues genscher?
<mal_CanDo> Link seemed to get split for gesture thread = 
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=130120
* mal_CanDo has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]")
<Genscher> Nichod, volumetrics is a renderer enhancement / feature
* gustav (n=gustav at snf4-156.finet.se) has joined #blendercoders
<Nichod> well my concern is how jumbled the material panels are getting.
* kaito really thinks everyone should stop coding new stuff for a while :/
<Nichod> hehe.
<Genscher> we were already forced to stop for 2 month!
* Genscher couldn't halt anymore
* gaffa (n=tape at 0x4dd4d8f1.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #blendercoders
<Nichod> :)
<kaito> stablizing old stuff is already hard, and we really really need 
2.5 to get going
<Nichod> needed a SOC 2.5 project :)
<kaito> but i know... i am part of the problem too :)
<directedition> will 2.5 be the next release after 2.47, or at more 2.4x 
planned?
<kaito> doing blender GE + glsl...
<Nichod> we expect 2.5 by christmas kaito ;)
<kaito> directedition: yep we *should* do 2.50 now
<directedition> sweet
<kaito> but you know :/
<Nichod> directedition: he said "should"
<Nichod> hehe
<kaito> exciting things first :)
<directedition> heh, indeed =)
<kaito> OTH we can also put glsl goodies in 2.5
<oblenob> I am looking forward to the full screen ness
* ibkanat (n=pilgrim at host-69-145-222-186.kls-mt.client.bresnan.net) has 
joined #blendercoders
<Nichod> where was the meeting at?
<Nichod> hehe
<kaito> oops
* kaito was writing log, now on ml
<chewed-on> Nichod: is that 2008 christmas or 2009 christmas ?
* kaito has changed the topic to: Sunday meetings 16h CEST, 14h UTC | 
please add a topic you would like to be discussed at 
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/SundayMeetingAgenda
<kaito> hoppa, we can banter, gossip and kick again!
<kaito> there's no xmas 2009, didn't you hear?
* brecht has quit ()
<zaghaghi> kaito: i have a quation, about proog do you have time for this?
<kaito> they skip every 2009 years once
<directedition> So 4018 will have no christmas either?
<kaito> yep
<directedition> ;_;
<kaito> it is to correct for the earth rotation
<Nichod> kaito: did you do the curve force?
<IamInnocent> @ kaito: you said that 75
<Nichod> i was pointed at you as being the coder for it.
<IamInnocent> % of the bug reports were support issues ?
<IamInnocent> meaning not real bugs?
<kaito> IamInnocent: i guess yes
<kaito> zaghaghi: what is the question?
<LetterRip> hmm XSI just moved to 'everything doable via nodes'
<zaghaghi> kaito, i download proog blend file and textures, but it's 
very slow in blender!
<LetterRip> http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/ice/default.aspx
<IamInnocent> Then bug reports should be submitted to users first to 
filter out these or confirm bug no?
<kaito> LetterRip: if you read it closely, it is not yet *everything*
<LetterRip> kaito - yes 'everything' was an exageration
<LetterRip> or oversimplification
<zaghaghi> for example rotating a bone takes 10-15 second!!
<kaito> IamInnocent: no, typically it requires a dev to see that :)
<oblenob> do we loose december every 2009 years of just christmas?
<IamInnocent> all right then, bye now
<Nichod> letterip: i think mesh "creation" isn't fully implemented. but 
is available in alpha form.
<Genscher> they stealt nodes from blender! ;)
<LetterRip> or from houdinig
<Nichod> no from houdini :P
<LetterRip> houdini
<Genscher> LetterRip, i don't think so, even the background grid is the same
<Genscher> ;)
<kaito> the UI has some similarities :)
* mxcurioni has quit ()
<kaito> but it is not easy to make original nodes
* UncleZeiv_ (n=dave at ip-87-238-0-33.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) has joined 
#blendercoders
<kaito> it is fun though that they copied the convention to have outputs 
first (on top, right) and below that inputs on left (top down too)
<Nichod> actually XSI had that node setup prior to blender
<Nichod> with there shader tree
* jahka_afk (n=opera at dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe2cfa00-163.dhcp.inet.fi) has left 
#blendercoders
<Genscher> node based physics - cool :)
<kaito> oooh right, i saw shader trees once...
<Nichod> they had node based shading long before blender
* hannibar has quit (Remote closed the connection)
<Nichod> and compositing for that matter
* hannibar (n=hans_pac at d54C3A95C.access.telenet.be) has joined 
#blendercoders
<Genscher> "add force" node
* nicholasbishop (n=nicholas at nicholasbishop.student.umd.edu) has left 
#blendercoders
<Nichod> one day in blender...one day.
<chewed-on> kaito: don't forget the round circular input/output :)
<Nichod> i expect all dreams to come in 2.5 *stares at kaito*
* joeedh wonders how a node-based setup would work with particles. . 
.surely a simple DAG solver wouldn't be enough
<kaito> http://www.pixolator.com/zbc/attachment.php?attachmentid=64372
<Genscher> joeedh, they can do it, we can do it
<Genscher> ;)
<directedition> With all the new wonders in 2.5, I'm surprised it isn't 
going to get a major version number.
<kaito> well xsi wins!
* joeedh thinks first we need proper group support with things like 
groups-within-groups :)
<Genscher> directedition, it gets
<Nichod> hehe.
<chewed-on> directedition: we were suppose to go from Blender 2.43 -> 2.50.
<Genscher> directedition, it's a jumpg from 2.47 to 2.50
<kaito> joeedh: group-in-group is easy
<directedition> Ahh, the ways of things
<joeedh> ooh! and the ability to have group instance nodes inherit the 
UIs of user-selected nodes inside the group
<joeedh> and um have each group instance be a true instance.
<Nichod> i really want OOPS to be controllable and more useful
<kaito> but groupin(group-in-(group-in-group)-ingroup)) not
<joeedh> and the ability to turn the eyecandy off, for large trees.  and 
be able to zoom out further.
<joeedh> and a better panning mode
<Nichod> tie in a single SDS modifier to multiple objects for instance 
just by inserting it into OOPS and dragging the "noodle"
<Genscher> Nichod, i would be happy if linked blend files could be 
deleted again ;)
<kaito> eyecandy off = hkey
<Nichod> joeedh : LOD
* mindrones (n=luca at 213-156-52-124.fastres.net) has joined #blendercoders
* lukep has quit ("Rule 1 : Pillage, then burn !")
log ends 11:52 EDT